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I ski a Gotama --- I want one of these: Armada JJ -- Rossignol s7 -- Atomic Bent Chetler -- 4FRNT EHP

Poll Results: Which ski do you think will compliment my Gotama's best?

This is a multiple choice poll
  • 15% of voters (2)
    Armada JJ (126-136-115-133-121)
  • 69% of voters (9)
    Rossignol s7 (145-115-123)
  • 15% of voters (2)
    Atomic Bent Chetler (140-123-134)
  • 0% of voters (0)
    4FRNT EHP (132-116-122)
13 Total Votes  
post #1 of 29
Thread Starter 

A little background first:

 

I'm 25, 6'0" 165lbs., ski in Telluride, CO on a pair of pre-rocker model 183 Volkl Gotamas.  I'm looking for a ski to use primarily in the backcountry and fresh snow situations as well as the trees.  I do not want a pure powder reversed cambered ski, but I do want a ski around 115mm underfoot as well as either no camber or slight camber.  Telluride gets around 300 in. a season and we ski a lot of variable, steep, rocky terrain.

 

If all was well I would go straight for the Rossi s7's but they are definitely the most expensive and hardest to find.  I am looking at the following skis, and I am wondering if anyone has any insight into these particular skis:

 

(I will be mounting these skis with Marker Dukes)

 

Armada JJ (126-136-115-133-121)

Rossignol s7 (145-115-123)

Atomic Bent Chetler (140-123-134)

4FRNT EHP (132-116-122)

post #2 of 29

Try this link.  If you scroll down you will find reviews on all of those skis, although they will not be the brand new models.  It should give you a basis for comparison.

 

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104129

post #3 of 29

I take it that you are putting Dukes on these rockered skis b/c you will be doing a fair bit of touring on them. (???)

 

BTW...........there IS a reason that the S7 is hard to find.

 

SJ

post #4 of 29

IF you are hellbent on the 7's (good pun?) Evogear has them as well as others. I think even some supporters here may have them.  But why not include some of the indies like ON3P, Moment, Praxis, PM Gear?  They are making some of the best progressive skis out there and most are made right here in the USA by small biz owners with a real passion for skiing....

 

 

http://www.praxisskis.com/shop/buy-skis.html

 

http://on3pskis.myshopify.com/collections/2010-2011skis

 

http://www.momentskis.com/skis.php

 

http://www.pmgear.com/

 

post #5 of 29

I went from pre-rockered Goats to the S7. I also have the Katana. For what you are talking about, I'd go Katana.

post #6 of 29

I spent last season on S7s and demoed the Bentchetlers. Both are pretty comparable and I don't think you can go wrong with either. S7s are a bit more carvy and stable, but also more hooky in long turns. Bentchetlers are a bit more poppy and playful, slightly looser (though still an excellent carver) and a bit smoother. I wouldn't say the Bentchetler feels much wider than the S7. Both will make you happy and are, in my opinion, the best 2 skis out there of that design.

 

I didn't like JJs, not substantial enough with hooky tails. I couldn't work them in turns.

 

EHPs are a good option but will be looser than the other options listed and less versatile. I just pre-ordered Renegades, the evolution of the EHP and, while I have not tried them and cannot provide a first-hand recommendation, they have a bit more rocker than the EHP and a shorter turn radius, which should marry the EHP's traits with those of the S7 and Bentchetler.

 

I also really liked the Czar, which has the advantage of no tail rocker if you like a ski with more solid tails. With its long radius and long, low tip rocker, it is less fun on groomers than S7 or Bentchetler but sooo smooth in soft snow.

post #7 of 29

Oh......!!!!

 

And don't forget Johhny's Bitchin' Garage Built Skis. This is another very indie brand that has built a strong following among at least 6 or 7 cool dudes that get them for free. Their "Brah" model has gotten very respectable comments from folks that have never skied them but like the looks and kewl factor.

 

Yep.....thatz what I'd be a'lookin at........fersure.

 

SJ

post #8 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by SierraJim View Post

Oh......!!!!

 

And don't forget Johhny's Bitchin' Garage Built Skis. This is another very indie brand that has built a strong following among at least 6 or 7 cool dudes that get them for free. Their "Brah" model has gotten very respectable comments from folks that have never skied them but like the looks and kewl factor.

 

Yep.....thatz what I'd be a'lookin at........fersure.

 

SJ

 

Spoken like a true cog of the ski industry machine.
 

post #9 of 29


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mudfoot View Post



 

Spoken like a true cog of the ski industry machine.
 


Absolutely.

 

Also spoken like all our 25 Y/O technicians/big mtn competitors who have had 100 or so of these engineering/manufacturing marvels in their hands each year.

 

SJ

post #10 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by SierraJim View Post


 


Absolutely.

 

Also spoken like all our 25 Y/O technicians/big mtn competitors who have had 100 or so of these engineering/manufacturing marvels in their hands each year.

 

SJ



I agree. Nobody should ever start a new company. Ever.

post #11 of 29



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by hunterh99 View Post

A little background first:

 

I'm 25, 6'0" 165lbs., ski in Telluride, CO on a pair of pre-rocker model 183 Volkl Gotamas.  I'm looking for a ski to use primarily in the backcountry and fresh snow situations as well as the trees.  I do not want a pure powder reversed cambered ski, but I do want a ski around 115mm underfoot as well as either no camber or slight camber.  Telluride gets around 300 in. a season and we ski a lot of variable, steep, rocky terrain.

 

If all was well I would go straight for the Rossi s7's but they are definitely the most expensive and hardest to find.  I am looking at the following skis, and I am wondering if anyone has any insight into these particular skis:

 

(I will be mounting these skis with Marker Dukes)

 

Armada JJ (126-136-115-133-121)

Rossignol s7 (145-115-123)

Atomic Bent Chetler (140-123-134)

4FRNT EHP (132-116-122)


Are you keeping your 183 Gotamas as your everyday ski? Have you skied any of those noted in your list?  I own JJ's and S7's (got both slightly used for great prices, so it can be done)...prefer the S7's as I'm more freeride than freestyle, but also picked up a pair of the new Gotamas at the end of the season and was blown away.  A true all-mtn ski that still kills it in the powder.  My point in mentioning those is that I would (1) plan on demoing and (2) expand your list because there are several other options that meet your needs and are likely just as capable and not as expensive/hard to find.
 

And Sierra Jim - For a second there I thought I was posting in TGR!
 

post #12 of 29

Can you skin up the bc with a fully rockered model like the S7? Just wondering how that works.

 

A ski buddy lost a Bent Chetler last winter, and judging by how devastated, crushed, destroyed he was (not wealthy enough to shrug it off), it must be a sensational ski. 

 

It finally came to me, the term to describe some new production boutique skis I've demoed: plank.

post #13 of 29

Jim:

 

I am not disparaging the major ski manufactures, but the indies listed by Finndog offer some very well made high performance skis, and to summarily dismiss them is overlooking several good options for the kind of ski the OP is seeking.

 

The tendency on this board when an OP asks about a particular ski(s) is for someone to respond with recommendation of another ski they like, as opposed to Finndog's post, which IMO was thoughtful and informative.

 

I have immense respect for your opinion, and consider you one of (if not the best) informed person on this forum, but your industry bias is showing on this one, and I couldn't help from making a jab.

post #14 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by mudfoot View Post

Jim:

 

I am not disparaging the major ski manufactures, but the indies listed by Finndog offer some very well made high performance skis, and to summarily dismiss them is overlooking several good options for the kind of ski the OP is seeking.

 

The tendency on this board when an OP asks about a particular ski(s) is for someone to respond with recommendation of another ski they like, as opposed to Finndog's post, which IMO was thoughtful and informative.

 

I have immense respect for your opinion, and consider you one of (if not the best) informed person on this forum, but your industry bias is showing on this one, and I couldn't help from making a jab.



In a discussion of small Indie vs large company my question: Is it possible at all to make a great ski in a small company.

 

My concern would be primarily addressing the large brands ability to produce proprietory adhesives and dampening layers, in terms of performance qualities, livliness vs planky stiffness, pop vs ornery flex, dampness vs intolerable chatter. If an indie can adequately address those issues, put me down for a pair. Until then, I'll put Dynastar's Sixth Sense Huge head to head against any comparable indie model.

 

I'm not an industry pro, so I hope I'm free to be biased toward the major manufacturers and their huge resourses.

post #15 of 29

Jim,  I see you didn't mind that I suggested he buy from supporters like yourself. BTW- my ski's arrived today and you guys did a great job on my skis. Thank you very much.

 

I think its important to support small business' and specialty shops where the people who own and work have passion for the sport. For me, its the first place I look to spend my dollars. I own a small business and I also buy locally when possible. I encourage everyone to consider these factors when buying.

post #16 of 29

Davluri:

 

Over the years I have seen numerous skis from major companies that were made cheaply and performed badly.  They do not always get it right. Likewise, many of the indie skis are of poor quality and/or ski badly, but IMO there are also some indie skis that rival the Rossi S7/s performance (just as an example) at much better prices and with equal or better quality construction.

 

A company like ON3P will hand make you skis with a custom flex, for about half the full retail price of S7s.  The bases and edges are twice as thick as standard brands, which makes them much more bomb proof.  That may not be what you are looking for, but it is an option that is at least worth considering when you are looking in the wide waist rocker category.

 

Yes it is possible for a small company to make top quality skis, and companies like Praxis, PM, DPS, Armada and others have proved it, but that is not to say they do not occasionally make some planks.

post #17 of 29


best thing to do is try out a pair or two. But yes, I know the durability of many of the indies is undeniable and has been tested over many years. Don't forget that many are pressed in locations that also press other manufacturers skis. 

 

Just to be clear though, there's nothing wrong with the major brands,  Its like buying a piece of cusom made furniture vs. a major brand of furniture right? They should be just as good or better since they have access to all the highest quality wood, latest and greatest adhesives and manufacturing equipment?  (I know you can relate to that!)
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post





In a discussion of small Indie vs large company my question: Is it possible at all to make a great ski in a small company.

 

My concern would be primarily addressing the large brands ability to produce proprietory adhesives and dampening layers, in terms of performance qualities, livliness vs planky stiffness, pop vs ornery flex, dampness vs intolerable chatter. If an indie can adequately address those issues, put me down for a pair. Until then, I'll put Dynastar's Sixth Sense Huge head to head against any comparable indie model.

 

I'm not an industry pro, so I hope I'm free to be biased toward the major manufacturers and their huge resourses.

post #18 of 29
Thread Starter 

Awesome responses guys -- I really appreciate your time.

 

I currently have a pair of Dukes on my Gotamas, but I'm thinking about putting them on whichever wider ski I pick so I can have a little more versatility in back/side-country.  I want my Gotama to be my resort/thinner snow condition ski and I will be putting standard bindings on them.  What do you guys think?


Quote:
Their "Brah" model has gotten very respectable comments from folks that have never skied them but like the looks and kewl factor.

Coolness and looks have 0 factor on my ski choice.  I absolutely HATE the topsheet on my gotamas (Tokyo Nights version), but the ski is excellent.  I will chose a ski solely based on its performance.

 


 

As far as an independent company goes -- I am willing to ski any ski that performs well.  Most of you guys have pointed to specific companies.  Do you have any specific skis within those companies that fit the description of the type of ski I am looking for?

 


 

Quote:
I also have the Katana. For what you are talking about, I'd go Katana.

I really like my Volkls, but they really wore my legs/shins out last season due to their stiffness.  For my next ski I am looking for a much more playful ski rather than race-influenced stiffness.  I love the snap in the Gotamas, but blasting through hard snow and bumps on them was rather painful by mid-season.

 

 

 

post #19 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by hunterh99 View Post

I really like my Volkls, but they really wore my legs/shins out last season due to their stiffness.  For my next ski I am looking for a much more playful ski rather than race-influenced stiffness.  I love the snap in the Gotamas, but blasting through hard snow and bumps on them was rather painful by mid-season.


The Katana is nothing like the Gotama. Just looking at the numbers and guessing what it would be, you'd expect it to be a missile. It isn't at all.

post #20 of 29

Although I haven't skied it, I have fondled it, it's a very sweet ski, BWPA speaks very highly of it as well. I would put that one on the list.

post #21 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finndog View Post


best thing to do is try out a pair or two. But yes, I know the durability of many of the indies is undeniable and has been tested over many years. Don't forget that many are pressed in locations that also press other manufacturers skis. 

 

Just to be clear though, there's nothing wrong with the major brands,  Its like buying a piece of cusom made furniture vs. a major brand of furniture right? They should be just as good or better since they have access to all the highest quality wood, latest and greatest adhesives and manufacturing equipment?  (I know you can relate to that!)
 


 



I've run the analogy through my mind before. And thanks for ackowleging my profession. The difference is that the best furniture in the world and in the history of the development of furniture is way in the past (as far as the major companies is concerned). Today the best furniture is made by small companies like Thomas Moser Cabinetmaker. The technology to make the best furniture, since it is old tech, is commonly known and commonly available as in the tooling and materials and methods involved.  You can reverse engineer a fine Stickly piece of furniture and accurately copy it at the same quality level.

 

Since ski technology is constantly developing and reverse engineering is next to impossible, and the materials are not available, there is a difference in the way a small company would approach furniture vs. skis.

 

Do I think people should buy furniture from a small company? Only if you want to be able to pass it on to future generations in your family. It just gets better with age.

 

Do I think the survival of any small business is protected by intelligent consumers? absolutely.

post #22 of 29

I knew you would appreciate my anology (which BTW, I will never show your site to my wife as all our money will quickly dissapear to you!- awesome artwork my friend and it is artwork)

 

OK, not to get off the point too much but this ain't rocket science. My friend makes skis in his basement with a vacuum press he bought, he buys the same materials from the major suppliers (he buys their excess or left overs from runs). Although what he makes isn't as good as a professionally made ski, the point is anyone with knowledge and skills does have the access to the highest quality of materials, and with the skills they,  like you have with making furniture, I will argue that many will use better materials that is used on many of the majors skis especially powder/soft snow. 2.2 mil edges for instance, higher density bases and such.  They have much lower overhead and no red tape in their way. Like Mudfoot said, some can even dial in and make semi-custom boards for you , much the way you can customize pieces.

 

I do know a certian indie company that uses a certain ski shop to prep and tune all their skis because they do such an incredible job. Small store, top notch people with a real passion for skiing. 


Edited by Finndog - 8/13/10 at 12:24pm
post #23 of 29
Thread Starter 

Thank for hijacking this thread with absurd "analogies" about carpentry and advertising for ski companies instead of focusing on specific skis that fit the discussion.  Weak - Sauce.

post #24 of 29

ON3P Billy Goat, would seem to fit what you are looking  for.  Check their web site, and my link in post #2 if you want some consumer test ride reports.  The BG has a lot of similarities to the S7, but is lighter.

post #25 of 29
Quote:

Originally Posted by hunterh99 View Post

 

I do not want a pure powder reversed cambered ski, but I do want a ski around 115mm underfoot as well as either no camber or slight camber.  Telluride gets around 300 in. a season and we ski a lot of variable, steep, rocky terrain.

 

....
 

I really like my Volkls, but they really wore my legs/shins out last season due to their stiffness.  For my next ski I am looking for a much more playful ski rather than race-influenced stiffness.  I love the snap in the Gotamas, but blasting through hard snow and bumps on them was rather painful by mid-season.

 

 

 

 

There are skis out there like a P4 that are similar to the gotama but much easier going. If you don't love the gotamas there are other fish in the sea.

 

As far as what you saked for, do you want something more freeride or more freestyle?

 

The Sir Francis from Line is basicly jsut what you asked for if you want freestyle. It certainly would be a jibby ski compared to the gotama.

 

As far a small ski makers, I have the praxis powder. Its a great ski and very well made bomber ski that performs well in its intended environment. Of the models Praxis offers the RX would be closest to what you are asking for. But i ahve not skied that model. Still they make a good product.

 

Also the Moment Ruby and they are liquidating the old version right now for like $300.

 

If you want something a bit more boutique you could get a DPS Lotus 120. 

 

post #26 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by hunterh99 View Post

Awesome responses guys -- I really appreciate your time.

 

I currently have a pair of Dukes on my Gotamas, but I'm thinking about putting them on whichever wider ski I pick so I can have a little more versatility in back/side-country.  I want my Gotama to be my resort/thinner snow condition ski and I will be putting standard bindings on them.  What do you guys think?


Coolness and looks have 0 factor on my ski choice.  I absolutely HATE the topsheet on my gotamas (Tokyo Nights version), but the ski is excellent.  I will chose a ski solely based on its performance.

 


 

As far as an independent company goes -- I am willing to ski any ski that performs well.  Most of you guys have pointed to specific companies.  Do you have any specific skis within those companies that fit the description of the type of ski I am looking for?

 


 

I really like my Volkls, but they really wore my legs/shins out last season due to their stiffness.  For my next ski I am looking for a much more playful ski rather than race-influenced stiffness.  I love the snap in the Gotamas, but blasting through hard snow and bumps on them was rather painful by mid-season.

 

 

 





If youre looking at the S7 then check out the ON3P Billy Goat. You can email Scott the owner directly with any questions. He's quite responsive

Ps I've no affiliation w/ON3P
post #27 of 29


Since you are a newb and dont know the regulars around here... Dave is a professional furniture maker and the analogy directly compares the myth that small manufacturers don't have the access to high quality materials or technology or that mass production means quality vs small production. Since you are asking about skis the information might prove informative to you since you were looking to learn about various skis. Devaition from OP's as long as they are based on the subject is not considered Hijacking. If you just want to know a name of a ski, thats weak sauce (or whatever that means).  Welcome to Epic.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by hunterh99 View Post

Thank for hijacking this thread with absurd "analogies" about carpentry and advertising for ski companies instead of focusing on specific skis that fit the discussion.  Weak - Sauce.

post #28 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finndog View Post

IF you are hellbent on the 7's (good pun?) Evogear has them as well as others. I think even some supporters here may have them.  But why not include some of the indies like ON3P, Moment, Praxis, PM Gear?  They are making some of the best progressive skis out there and most are made right here in the USA by small biz owners with a real passion for skiing....

 

 

http://www.praxisskis.com/shop/buy-skis.html

 

http://on3pskis.myshopify.com/collections/2010-2011skis

 

http://www.momentskis.com/skis.php

 

http://www.pmgear.com/

 



What he said.  Seriously, better skis and you get to give the little(er) guys your money.  Armada JJs would be a good pick, but from these other manufactures you should be seriously checking out the ON3P Billy Goat or Wrenegade, Moment Bibby Pro, PM gear Lhasa Pow, and Praxis Mountain Jib or Protest

post #29 of 29

Thanks 'drifter- I would add the praxis concept? now that's an innovtive ski -  if Keith is lurking- very cool.....

 

http://praxisskis.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=4&category_id=1&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=29

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