EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › Ski Training and Pro Forums › Ski Instruction & Coaching › What kind of expert are you?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

What kind of expert are you? - Page 2  

post #31 of 53

As for the money issue, I agree with Nolo...although it's not really the subject of this thread.  (Maybe it is.)

 

I, like JASP, have given much away at no charge. And I love doing that.  However, the cost has been high. Ultimately you have to end up somewhere where you can make a living.  I've been in it a long time, and have not made much of a living in the ski teach biz.  That's okay, but it also explains a bit about where some people basically HAVE to put their time.

 

This is why I'm so pleased that epicski.com is/has moved toward a better financial footing.  In my view, it has changed, but not lost its character.  That's pretty cool.

post #32 of 53
Thread Starter 

Weems, If there's no money in it, Why do you do it? Why do so many of us mentor and coach other instructors for little to no pay? If we're all mercenaries why do we all give so much away? To me the only explanation is there's more to it than just money. Anyway, I started this thread to suggest an idea. An idea that has to do with how we interact, not how underpaid we are. How can we serve the members better? I read some advice The Rusty gave Cookie about how to gain more acceptance of her ideas and it got me thinking of how much I miss the courtesy we all demonstrated in the Ask a Ski Pro forum. I'm not naive and I don't expect much traction for the idea of demonstrating restraint among everyone but IMO the instructor tagged members should be capable of showing more tact and courtesy to their peers, especially when they disagree with each other.


Edited by justanotherskipro - 8/13/10 at 8:28pm
post #33 of 53

Originally Posted by crgildart View Post

There are expert skiers (athletes), and there are expert instructors (coaches).    It is extremely rare to fine an individual that is an expert at both. 

 

I am not now, nor have I ever been, an Expert.  I've successfully avoided being an Expert all my life and don't intend to change my ways any time soon.   I am however relieved to hear that Experts are no longer being fined...

 

.ma

post #34 of 53


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelA View Post

 

I am not now, nor have I ever been, an Expert.  I've successfully avoided being an Expert all my life and don't intend to change my ways any time soon.   I am however relieved to hear that Experts are no longer being fined...

 

.ma

post #35 of 53

I am sorry if I touched a hot button, JASP, but the "value proposition" is what motivates participation. Those that give have to receive something in return that is of value to them. 

post #36 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by weems View Post

An interesting exercise in communication.  I've got three thoughts here.

1.  I'm trying to learn to ask more questions, as opposed to express my opinion more.

2.  Reality (and language), in the words of Susan Scott (the author of Fierce Conversations) is "curly".  It's tricky and different words mean different things to people in different places and in different times.  

3.  People hear what they (and the culture) direct them to hear. My favorite example is a friend of mine who works with Israeli and American business people.  She says that the Israelis generally hear the first part of the sentence, while Americans hear the last part.  In a meeting, let's say that an Israeli speaks, and then an American answers, "I agree with you generally, but there is one place where I think you miss the point, and that is....etc."  Afterwards, the Israeli will come out of the meeting saying everyone is on the same page, while the American will say we are hopelessly divided.  (I love this!)

 

Anyway, I've watched #2 and #3 for many years, and have only recently begun to tackle #1.  From this post it is clear that I have a long way to go.  However, #1 may be a clue to JASP's original quest...to stay on topic, and really learn what people have to say.


+1

post #37 of 53
Thread Starter 

Not a hot button Nolo, So no need to appologize. My point was that money isn't the only measure of value. We all need to eat and have a roof over our heads but is that why we teach skiing? I seriously doubt it. We could make so much more money doing something else. It's the giving that is it's own reward. I know that might sound silly to some but that's how I approach Ski teaching and participating here at Epic... 

post #38 of 53

SD, thanks for taking time and commenting on my posting. Yes, my language skills are far from expert and so is my skiing. I dont regard myself as an expert skier (heck, I dont even know what steering is) but I think that I have become better both in the English language and in skiing since participating here. Yes, Im an ailien .

post #39 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by nolo View Post

I am sorry if I touched a hot button, JASP, but the "value proposition" is what motivates participation. Those that give have to receive something in return that is of value to them. 


I think that the world has been turned upside down because of the internet and forums like this. There will come a change Im sure but for now recieving professional advice and instruction completely free of charge is a huge benefit for the aspiring student in any sport or hobby.
 

post #40 of 53

Holy Crap....

post #41 of 53

"Something in return that is of value to them" could be the personal satisfaction of giving an aspiring student advice completely free of charge, perhaps in payback for the mentoring someone gave you when you were in your salad days.

post #42 of 53

Perhaps the Dalai Lama says it best.

 

http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=139654796072508

post #43 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by nolo View Post

"Something in return that is of value to them" could be the personal satisfaction of giving an aspiring student advice completely free of charge, perhaps in payback for the mentoring someone gave you when you were in your salad days.



Epic gives back

post #44 of 53

This space reserved for comment once I become an expert.

post #45 of 53

2 CENTS.   First I am not an expert.  Usually refer to myself as Advanced but in actuality this is only sometimes.  Truthfully I am really only advanced  in age.

 

Ask a Ski Pro.    Liked this forum, reviewed content pretty often.  Asked a few questions and received good answer.   Asked a question once entitled, Reluctance in Powder and received answers that were  1)on the mark   2) accurate   3) appropriate and one answer by Bob Barnes that was downright inspirational.  Even made a hard copy and review it every now and then.

 

One of the things that became very obvious to me was the uncluttered and non-posturing content of Ask a Ski Pro Forum. Personally I believe there are so-called experts that pop up once in awhile here on Epic that probably don't even ski.  I for one would like to see Ask a Ski Pro return.

 

post #46 of 53

Thanks for the endorsement, Pete. We'll definitely reconsider the Ask a Ski Pro option as a way of improving signal to noise re instruction and coaching. 

post #47 of 53

I was riding the lift one day when I saw this poor shmuck searching for a lost ski in the pow. He was far off in the middle of a huge bowl. The size of the hole he'd dug was awesome for being a 1/2 mile away. We had a good laugh at his expense and thought nothing more of it. 10 minutes later and purely by chance I saw that he was still looking and that I was going to end up not too far from him. So I swung over to offer to help him out. Swish, swish, snick (my ski running over his lost one)... hey buddy - here's your ski. He desperately wanted to buy me a beer, but I declined (it was a powder day after all). Am I an expert at finding lost skis? To this guy I was. Who really cares?  This is just what we do.

 

An expert marksman is just someone who can hit the target. He is no less of an expert just because someone else is even more accurate shooting backward between the legs using a mirror. We shouldn't get hung up on the "expert" label. If someone can ski an experts only trail without looking like a train wreck who really cares how many more levels of ability exist beyond that? A wise man once wrote "Anyone can be an Expert Skier", but that same man also opined that there really weren't that many true expert skiers in the world. One could observe that a literal interpretation of those statements is contradictory or one could just nod and say "I know what you mean". Being humble is cute. Are you going to let that keep you off the good stuff because you're not an "expert"?  This is just what we do.

post #48 of 53

Quote:

Personally I believe there are so-called experts that pop up once in awhile here on Epic that probably don't even ski.

 

Ya think?

 

JF

post #49 of 53

The Internet Skier Strikes Again.

post #50 of 53



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4ster View Post

Quote:

 

Ya think?

 

JF





Quote:
Originally Posted by slider View Post

The Internet Skier Strikes Again.



DAMN YOU GUYS  I thought I had an original thought.  Thought I would dazzle you with my English, I thought.

post #51 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by volantaddict View Post

This space reserved for comment once I become an expert.



An "expert" would have reserved a top of page slot

post #52 of 53
Thread Starter 

So am I correct in my assumption that there is a range of expertise among us? I'm all for some modesty but to be honest Examiner level coaches claiming not to possess at least a generally accepted level of expert status seems a bit of a stretch. Maybe I don't understand the intent but IMO there isn't any reason to discount our accomplishments and experience. Regardless of certification most of us here have spent a lifetime studying and practicing this sport on a fairly high level. Recognizing each other for our contributions is almost impossible but at the very least hearing out another opinion and responding to that opinion without the "if you knew more you would always agree with me" attitudes,would be an improvement. I feel this one small change would improve the S/N ratio dramatically and more top pros would be more willing to participate here. I've asked more than a few demo team level coaches about Epic and to be honest not one of them ever mentioned money as the reason they would not participate. Almost all mentioned the S/N ratio and how the lack of respect chased them away. To be fair some like Cookie came in guns a blazin and saying the rest of us didn't know and couldn't grasp concepts she was presenting. The concepts were fine but her attitude was offensive to more than a few. As a newbie to this site I can understand how some of this occurs but repeated attempt were made to suggest she tone down that part of her posts. I'm not singling her out though, all of us have done the same thing at least once or twice. I'm challenging myself and everyone else here to raise the bar and show the people at Epic and elsewhere how expert we can be at communicating without all the attitude.

I'm not sure what I'm saying will gain any traction but like so many of those pros I have discussed Epic with, I am questioning the value of participating here when it becomes a rehashing of three or four ideas instead of agreeing to disagree and simply answering OP questions...

With that I am going to be leaving Epic for a while but not beforethanking everyone here who have helping me develop my craft and helped me understand areas where I still need to improve my presentation skills. So in a way this thread is my feedback to all the fine pros here about how to add value to the site and it's also a goodbye letter. I'm am asking the mods to allow me the final words in this thread and to close it after this post. It been an experience and after many years I am sure I will miss Epic. God Bless and ski well my friends...

post #53 of 53

We will miss you, JASP. Please don't be a stranger.


Edited by nolo - 8/18/10 at 11:17am
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Ski Instruction & Coaching
This thread is locked  
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › Ski Training and Pro Forums › Ski Instruction & Coaching › What kind of expert are you?