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Upgrading Skis, need advice.

post #1 of 25
Thread Starter 

So last winter I ski'd on a pair of snoop daddies in 184cm. They are a really nice 50/50 ski, but when it came to deeper stuff they werent really cutting it. 

 

I want to go longer, fatter, stiffer this year and Im torn between 

 

A. Just getting a powder ski

 

B. Upgrading my everyday ski to some thing a little beefier.... and maybe a powder ski..

 

So anyway, Ive been considering the K2 Pontoon for power specific, but what I am really curious about are the following two skis. 

 

http://on3pskis.myshopify.com/collections/2010-2011skis/products/cease-desist

 

http://on3pskis.myshopify.com/collections/2010-2011skis/products/wrenegade

 

Would it be overkill to have each of the ON3P skis in my quiver, are they too similar? 

 

Thanks.

 

btw, 5'11, 195lbs, advanced skier, I wont say expert, but I do enjoy the double black runs. 

post #2 of 25

Give Scott or Rowen a call at ON3P. They are always more than happy to steer you in the right direction that best suits your needs.

post #3 of 25

There seem to be a few folks on TGR that favor the Wrenegade/Caylor combination as a two-ski ON3P quiver, as opposed to the Wren/C&D.  I think the C&D is kind of a combination of the other two.

 

Like ecimmortal said, if you call Scott and Rowen at ON3P, who are the owners of the company and make the skis, they are very helpful.  I corresponded with them by e-mail, and talked to them both on the phone in the process of picking out the right ski for me.  Since the skis are handmade, they even offered to lay in a little extra carbon to beef up my order, since I am a big guy. They truly are custom ski makers.

post #4 of 25

I will third that.  I would say, don't waste your money on the Pontoons at all.  If you want a ski like that, just get the ON3P Billy Goats, they are more versatile and have plenty of powder performance.  The quality of an ON3P is like triple that of a K2 ski.  I haven't skied the Wrenegade, but from what I hear, you could just have those in your quiver and be fine.  You will not be sorry if you go with ON3P, they have the best customer service of any ski gear company or retailer that I have dealt with.

post #5 of 25

Good lord.  Why is everybody so infatuated with the "microbrew" ski companies all of a sudden.  It's like there is a backlash going on against the large manufacturers when they've done nothing wrong?  I haven't seen quality issues with K2 since the original Enemy was out.  You would think if they could build skis good enough for Seth Morrison and Shane McConkey, that they can build skis good enough for any of us. 

post #6 of 25

Don't get me wrong, I love K2 skis.  But ON3Ps are better skis, hands down.  I don't know how they couldn't be, what with painstaking hand construction and finest material selection.  I think that pro riders mostly ski major brands for one obvious reason:  They are sponsored by them.  You are right though, there is a definite shift in the industry going on right now, although the vast majority of the market still belongs to the big manufacturers.  Almost every ski in my quiver is now handmade in the US.  I love the quality, the unique aspect, and putting food on the table of small(er) business owners.  I don't think mass produced skis are all junk, but if I am gonna spend that kind of money on new boards, I am almost certainly gonna buy from the small guys.  I have an order in at ON3P skis right now, and Scott is making me a pair with custom graphics, just because I don't really like the standard graphics of that model.  You definitely can't call up K2 and ask for something like that.

post #7 of 25

E-mail K2 with a question about their skis and see if the owner calls you to make sure your questions are answered.  Yeah, they make pretty good skis, but the handmade custom ones ON3P are making are top quality, not to mention several hundred dollars cheaper than the top line K2s.

post #8 of 25
Thread Starter 

So I went and did it, I pulled the trigger on the Wrenegades and the Pontoons. Check out my quiver for this year and tell me what you all think.

 

Atomic SX:B5  - For ice and carving on the groomers

 

Atomic Snoop Daddy - 50/50 Ski, shorter turn radius, good all mountain ski for when I wanna take it easy.

 

ON3P Wrenegade - For crud busting, ripping bowls, charging straight lines = )

 

K2 Pontoons - For when it storms and there is a ton of fresh powder to enjoy.

 

Rate my quiver /10

skis.jpg

post #9 of 25

RockSilde:

 

It looks like you are totally retooled to dominate the snowdscape. I'll be very interested to hear you comparison of the Pontoons to the Wrenegades, once you have some days on them.

post #10 of 25



its more about the vibe and the stoke of helping to support small biz's who are totally passionate about skiing and the lifestyle. They are turning out skis as good (and for the most part much better) than the corporate giants. Its very cool when you call or e-mail a company like ON3P, Praxis or PM Gear and speak to the owners (the artists) these people appreciate your business and the fact you chose their skis. Like below: they care enough to dial in your ski not because they have to , but because they truly care and want to.  Plus, take a look at what these guys are designing, they are leading the way in many cases.

 

 

help support a way of life, buy indie's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FujativeOCR View Post

Good lord.  Why is everybody so infatuated with the "microbrew" ski companies all of a sudden.  It's like there is a backlash going on against the large manufacturers when they've done nothing wrong?  I haven't seen quality issues with K2 since the original Enemy was out.  You would think if they could build skis good enough for Seth Morrison and Shane McConkey, that they can build skis good enough for any of us. 





Quote:
Originally Posted by hiplainsdrifter View Post

Don't get me wrong, I love K2 skis.  But ON3Ps are better skis, hands down.  I don't know how they couldn't be, what with painstaking hand construction and finest material selection.  I think that pro riders mostly ski major brands for one obvious reason:  They are sponsored by them.  You are right though, there is a definite shift in the industry going on right now, although the vast majority of the market still belongs to the big manufacturers.  Almost every ski in my quiver is now handmade in the US.  I love the quality, the unique aspect, and putting food on the table of small(er) business owners.  I don't think mass produced skis are all junk, but if I am gonna spend that kind of money on new boards, I am almost certainly gonna buy from the small guys.  I have an order in at ON3P skis right now, and Scott is making me a pair with custom graphics, just because I don't really like the standard graphics of that model.  You definitely can't call up K2 and ask for something like that.

post #11 of 25
Thread Starter 

Absolutely, I'd love to write up a comparison of the Wrens and the Toons, although we do have to wait for the snow 

 

Should be going to Whistler this season , I will write up a report and maybe Ill shoot some video up there.

 

Thanks for the advice everyone.

post #12 of 25

Enjoy- Consider the BG's or the praxis pow's for the next pow board.....

post #13 of 25

RockSlide:

 

This is from a TGR review by a guy who took his 191 Wrens cat skiing in BC.  I found the Pontoon comparison comments interesting, and probably idicative of the basic difference between the feel of full rockered skis and more tradtional confirguations like the Wrenegades.

 

"Again, they were amazing, maneuverable in the tree's, in control, and I just loved going fast and taking pretty big turns. I tried the pontoons for a couple runs, thinking they would feel totally different and probably better in the untouched because of the reverse camber. The pontoons felt a little bouncy to me, and my wrenegades floated just as well, and felt kind of more.....powerful, haha. like you could rip on them more."

 

This was after only a few runs on the Pontoons, so you should be giving them a much better side by side test next season. Hopefully you'll have plenty of deep snow for the test drives.

post #14 of 25



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RockSlide View Post

So I went and did it, I pulled the trigger on the Wrenegades and the Pontoons. Check out my quiver for this year and tell me what you all think.

 

Atomic SX:B5  - For ice and carving on the groomers

 

Atomic Snoop Daddy - 50/50 Ski, shorter turn radius, good all mountain ski for when I wanna take it easy.

 

ON3P Wrenegade - For crud busting, ripping bowls, charging straight lines = )

 

K2 Pontoons - For when it storms and there is a ton of fresh powder to enjoy.

 

Rate my quiver /10

skis.jpg



I think your quiver looks red, white, and black.  It is funny how one's quiver randomly trends towards certain colors.  Mine is going to be almost all blue soon.  Oh, and your quiver looks badass to.  I am suprised you bought both the Wrens and the Toons, but I suppose you can just sell one or the other if you discover that one dominates the deep end of your quiver.  Have a fun winter!

post #15 of 25
Thread Starter 

^    I thought the same thing, totally random though...

 

 

I was talking to the guy from ON3P and he basically uses a his C&D for anything deeper than 6", so the Wren is good in all but the deepest of Pow, which I assumed the Toon would cover. I know its a small% of the time but the Toon has got such great reviews, and for $420 at O2 gear I couldnt pass it up.

 

You think its overkill to have both of these Skis? (wren, toon)

post #16 of 25

Nice quiver.

 

The toons are fairly pow specific (good in them moring after a dump or all day -- when its dumping all day  and really made for cat / heli days, or touring if you want to lug them around) and are alot of fun.

 

I think the wren is a good choice as an everyday soft snow ride assuming that you like the way it rides. Its more of a charger. If you want that sort of ski then by all means. If you ski mostly in the trees and don't regularly seek the big lines  then maybe something else would be  better (billy goats for example).

post #17 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tromano View Post

Nice quiver.

 

The toons are fairly pow specific (good in them moring after a dump or all day -- when its dumping all day  and really made for cat / heli days, or touring if you want to lug them around) and are alot of fun.

 

I think the wren is a good choice as an everyday soft snow ride assuming that you like the way it rides. Its more of a charger. If you want that sort of ski then by all means. If you ski mostly in the trees and don't regularly seek the big lines  then maybe something else would be  better (billy goats for example).

The Snoop Daddies pretty much cover the tree skiing slot. I am going to break up my tree skiing days and my bowl charging between the snoop and the wren.
 

post #18 of 25

Your quiver and mine have alot of similar stuff going on. I have: Praxis powder (deep days and side country), Dynastar Huge Trouble (fat AM ski for everyday use when the snow is good), Dynastar Sultan 85 (skinny all mountain sk for every day use when the snow isn't as good), and Volkl SL racing skis.

 

I think once you get the wrens or the toons in the trees you might start seeing the snoops come out much less frequently than planned.

 

 

post #19 of 25

Rockslide,

 

I bought the 191 Wrens last year and they are by far my absolute favorite ski I have been on...  If the snow is remotely soft they will kill it along with crud!  I am 6'4" and 215 lbs and skiied 10" to 15" of untouched POW at Bachelor in April and they provided mucho float for me and never once buried the tips.  The tip rocker is perfect and what I like about it is you can still ski aggressively by putting pressure on the tip and you will not bury it nor will you have the rocker wash out...  I am a former ski racer and have never been a fan of jibby rocker skis (cannot ski in a neutral stance) and the Wren was a perfect fit.  I skiied the 189 Toons and they were a great ski, but the Wren will still provide plenty of float, get you back to the chair via zoomer groomers no problem and absolutely crush crud...  I would think of owning a ski like the Toon if I got to ski in AK or un-touched POW all the time, but since that is not the case the Wren will be the ticket...

 

I will disagree with Tromano a bit as even though the Wren is billed as a charging ski I find it incredibly easy to ski (not like the old Dynastar XXL, Dynastar PRO or Stockli Stormriders)...  You do not have to get it going mach looney for it to perform and I skiied on it at Bach for 5 days and 6 days at T Ride and never once did I find it tiring...  It did fine in the tress, but if the majority of your skiing is in the trees than yeah there are better choices...  I love this ski and love ON3P (2nd pair on the way) and will be ordering a major POW ski shortly (more than likely the Cease and Desist)...  Hell, I found it had a playful/poppy feel in POW and no doubt increased my confidence in some of the dicier steep chutes that my 190 Gold Goats would have been knocked around...

 

Again, great quiver and enjoy...!  Oh yeah - welcome to the boutique club...!  Just like when I was introduced to micro brews I never had another Micehlob and now I will probably never own Volkls again after skiing ON3P, Movements and Stocklis...

 

Buckeye

post #20 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckeye View PostI will disagree with Tromano a bit as even though the Wren is billed as a charging ski I find it incredibly easy to ski (not like the old Dynastar XXL, Dynastar PRO or Stockli Stormriders)...  You do not have to get it going mach looney for it to perform and I skiied on it at Bach for 5 days and 6 days at T Ride and never once did I find it tiring...  It did fine in the tress, but if the majority of your skiing is in the trees than yeah there are better choices...  I love this ski and love ON3P (2nd pair on the way) and will be ordering a major POW ski shortly (more than likely the Cease and Desist)...  Hell, I found it had a playful/poppy feel in POW and no doubt increased my confidence in some of the dicier steep chutes that my 190 Gold Goats would have been knocked around...


Funny way to disagree. You said almost word for word exactly what I said.

post #21 of 25

No doubt, but I guess what I took exception to was the statement - "skiing big lines" and "charger"...  When I think of that statment I think of having to get skis up to high speeds (again ie = 190 Legend Pros, XXLs, Garbones) before they come alive...  I aboslutely love my Movement Thunders and even though they are only 89 underfoot those skis require me to stay on top of them at all times and will ski big lines and steep colouirs...  I found the Wrens incredibly easy to ski and yet at the same time they were one of the best crud busters I have been on...  Probably splitting hairs, but for what the Wren can do and is billed as it is an incredibly easy going ski...

 

Buckeye

post #22 of 25



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RockSlide View Post

 

You think its overkill to have both of these Skis? (wren, toon)



Yeah, I think it is overkill (although I do have multiple rockered skis in my quiver).  Really, how deep to you expect the snow to get?  I haven't skied the Wrens, but have skied rockered skis with similar dimensions, and I can't imagine burying your tips.  Ever.  Maybe in 40+ inches, but that would be epic face shots no matter what you are on so long as it is fat, even if your tips are swimming.  I have skied days with 30 inches of fresh on top of several feet of older pow underneath on my old Moment Rubys (not rockered), and had no problems whatsoever.  So, from a practical standpoint, I don't think you need both.  But if you want both, well, I have been there.

post #23 of 25


Quote:

Originally Posted by Buckeye View Post

I bought the 191 Wrens last year and they are by far my absolute favorite ski I have been on... 

 

...even though the Wren is billed as a charging ski I find it incredibly easy to ski.. You do not have to get it going mach looney for it to perform and I skiied on it at Bach for 5 days and 6 days at T Ride and never once did I find it tiring...  It did fine in the trees, but if the majority of your skiing is in the trees than yeah there are better choices... 

  

Buckeye

 

For reasons I will not go into, I am very interested in your statement about skiing the Wrens at Telluride.  Where did you ski them there?  I cannot imagine getting through a day at T-ride without skiing a whole lot of bumps. I would think the Wrens would be quite a handful there, unless you hit some huge dumps.  Could you please elaborate?  Thanks.  MF

 

post #24 of 25

How much time have you guys dismissing Pontoons actually spent on them? 

 

Let's be realistic: the Pontoon remains a top tier choice for powder skiing -  or any soft snow skiing for that matter. Especially in trees. Even soft groomers are a hoot. The construction is solid. It is a great design and a great ski.  

 

There is simply no way that a tip rocker only ski can match a Pontoon (or Praxis Powder, ARG, or even a Kuro, etc) in powder. Not saying a tip rocker only ski is intrinsically a bad thing. There are any number of interesting hybrid skis out there at this point. But for powder days or deep slush, tip rocker only is by definition a compromise. 

 

I think a number of the indies are great (witness my beloved  Praxis collection).  But that's no reason to close your eyes to reality or to be dismissive of a great ski like the Pontoon.
 

I suspect that after spending a half dozen or so days on the Pontoons & really getting a feel for them, the OP will be pretty darn happy to have them.

 

post #25 of 25



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by spindrift View Post

How much time have you guys dismissing Pontoons actually spent on them? 

 

Let's be realistic: the Pontoon remains a top tier choice for powder skiing -  or any soft snow skiing for that matter. Especially in trees. Even soft groomers are a hoot. The construction is solid. It is a great design and a great ski.  

 

I suspect that after spending a half dozen or so days on the Pontoons & really getting a feel for them, the OP will be pretty darn happy to have them.

 


That is why I am glad RockSlide owns both the Wrens and the Toons. I figure he can give us a good comparison review.  Buckeye's post reflects what I suspect, but have no personal experience to back up.  If you have a forward racing style of skiing, you are not going to favor big rocker skis because they have no front end, and a less solid connection to the snow. If you favor a more neutral stance, you can make a ski like the Pontoons dance, if you can accept the less exact connection to the snow.
 

As I noted in Post #13, I was intrigued by the TGR reviewer's comment that the Wrens felt more powerful than the Toons, which cuts to what I suspect is the crux of rocker, which is looser connection equals more maneuverability, but a less solid connection to the situation.  It comes down to the dealer's choice.


Edited by mudfoot - 8/10/10 at 1:46pm
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