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Knee Binding

post #1 of 18
Thread Starter 

Anybody ski on the Knee Binding? If so, why? If not, why not?

 

 

You don't grow too old to ski, you grow old because you stop skiing

post #2 of 18

I'd read some reviews on this -- seems to be really mixed if it's worth the premium pricetag.

 

Here's a previous poster asking the same: http://www.epicski.com/forum/thread/80390/knee-binding-reviews-opinions -- includes a post by the KneeBinding inventor explaining the technology.

post #3 of 18

No, not another knee binding thread...... 

 

Please read this previous one and save us the bleeding

 

http://www.epicski.com/forum/thread/74047/knee-binding 

 

post #4 of 18
post #5 of 18

AHHH!!!!! It won't GO AWAY!!!!!!!!

 

 

Pick up some Rossi FKS 140's and move on. I had the kneebinding tried them for a while and returned them........good concept.......not ready for market in it's current form. Too many serious issues, way too many questions, legal issues, I had pieces breaking on the binding, controversy.......you name it,  all those threads have it.......

post #6 of 18
Thread Starter 

Thanks for the info. It looks like Knee Bindings are not in my future.

 

 

You don’t grow too old to ski, you grow old because you stop skiing

post #7 of 18

Here's another thread that was an update to the others which were noted above:

 

http://www.epicski.com/forum/thread/92348/kneebinding-update

 

I have ACTUALLY skied 105 ski days on them so far over the past 2 seasons following my ACL reconstruction. I have also crashed numerous times on them and tried out every release mode they offer. I have NEVER pre-released out of them. I happen to like them, think they ski well, and remain optimistic. To be sure, I am looking forward to continuing on them this season.

 

You should know that there are numerous changes that were made to them since they were first introduced, and I have always found that the company was very responsive and supportive from a customer perspective.

post #8 of 18

Both my wife and I use knee bindings and we have used them for the entire 2010-11 season and logged almost 100 days on the slopes. Mine have performed very well so far in that I have not had any premature releases and no knee injuries in spite of a couple of nasty falls. My wife, on the other hand, fell recently and managed to tear her ACL while using one of these bindings. The binding did release but not soon enough to prevent the injury.

post #9 of 18

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me in plain engineering speak what the facts are in terms of what makes this "knee binding" any better than a good Tyrolia.

(e.g. Tyrolia has upward diagonal release at toe and heel, so what more is there?)

 

post #10 of 18

I don't speak engineer, but the difference is that your Tyrolia has upward diagonal release at the heel, the Knee Binding has pure sideways release (in one direction) at the heel. The Tyrolia helps in a twisting forward fall allowing the heel to clear the boot along with the toe. That type of fall is not a major risk to knee ligaments, the Phantom Foot type of fall is the leading ACL damaging type of fall. In the Phantom Foot fall the skiers weight is moving back and pressure is being exerted down on the heel of the binding and twisting to the outside edge of the inside ski (skiers weight is inside the turn with hips bellow the knee). In this type of fall a traditional binding is sensing no load at the heel and very little at the toe... but your ACL will explode. The Tyrolia Diagonal Heel doesn't help, try pushing down on it and twisting it... nothing will happen.

 

That's the difference.

 

In actual Engineer Speak- http://www.patentgenius.com/patent/7887084.html

 

... and, my attempt at speaking Engineer- "Choo-Choooo" (I speak French even worse...)


Edited by Whiteroom - 4/2/11 at 9:53am
post #11 of 18

Wouldn't the upward diagonal relaeas at the toe handle that backwards twisting fall?  EDIT: Never mind, I can see where the upwards force at the toe required for release can be high enough and the actual upwards force at the toe low enough that you would damage your knee before the toe would release.

 

BTW your engineering speak is pretty good.  You are the first person to mention pure sideways release at the heel.  Thanks.


 

post #12 of 18

The force being applied to the toe of the binding is minimal in this type of fall, but the knee is in a very weak position and the rear cuff of the boot is combined with the tail of the ski to create a BIG lever that knee sure feels. Picture a skier falling slowly backward (no 'impact') as the ski accelerates forward, a conventional binding isn't sensing forces so won't release.

post #13 of 18

How about when I'm in a fairly solid position, but perhaps a little recklessly banging in a direction change at inprudent speeds off a big pile of snow with perhaps a bit of sideways direction to the force vector at the heel, or say clumsily running up a steep hill sideways (just because).  Does the knee binding release, or does it know I want it to stay on ?

 

post #14 of 18

Does it also have a traditional release?   or just a pure sideways release?

post #15 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaceDude View Post

Does it also have a traditional release?   or just a pure sideways release?



What's the matter?  Don't you speak Engineering?

From the link in WR's post..

  Ski binding heel unit includes lateral release cams and a vector decoupler mechanism that provide lateral shear release of the heel of a ski boot from a ski. The ski binding heel unit includes an independent vertical heel release mechanism, independent lateral release mechanism and a forward pressure compensator. The lateral release cams have laterally outwardly flaring contact points. The vector decoupler mechanism restricts heel unit lateral rotation and translation to a control path. The shape of the lateral release cams dictates the control path. The vector decoupler mechanism redirects the non-lateral forces without effecting the vertical heel release, lateral heel release or forward pressure compensator. The lateral release cams and vector decoupler mechanism avert non-lateral, benign loads from the lateral heel release, and avert non-vertical, benign loads from the vertical heel release thereby reducing the incidence of inadvertent pre-release of a boot from a ski.

 

post #16 of 18

Nope!  But I saw it said vertical and lateral release, so I'm going to infer that means the release goes sideways and up.  
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post





What's the matter?  Don't you speak Engineering?

From the link in WR's post..

  Ski binding heel unit includes lateral release cams and a vector decoupler mechanism that provide lateral shear release of the heel of a ski boot from a ski. The ski binding heel unit includes an independent vertical heel release mechanism, independent lateral release mechanism and a forward pressure compensator. The lateral release cams have laterally outwardly flaring contact points. The vector decoupler mechanism restricts heel unit lateral rotation and translation to a control path. The shape of the lateral release cams dictates the control path. The vector decoupler mechanism redirects the non-lateral forces without effecting the vertical heel release, lateral heel release or forward pressure compensator. The lateral release cams and vector decoupler mechanism avert non-lateral, benign loads from the lateral heel release, and avert non-vertical, benign loads from the vertical heel release thereby reducing the incidence of inadvertent pre-release of a boot from a ski.

 



 

post #17 of 18

Ok, I'll translate.   The sideways release is not affected by vertical forces (leading me to believe it might release when I want it not to).  The vertical heel release is not affected by sideways forces. 

 

post #18 of 18

The binding only releases laterally in one direction, outward at the heel. this is not a direction of force that normal skiing will effect. Think about where forces will be generated while turning- the heel of your boot isn't ever going to generate rotational energy toward the outside edge of your ski under any circumstance that isn't involving a fall or a very dangerous recovery move, a move that is THE LEADING cause of severe knee injuries. So yes, it may 'pre-release' on you but only slightly before your ACL/MCL does.

 

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