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Vicodin use at night?

post #1 of 22
Thread Starter 

Has anyone ever used vicodin (or related) painkillers only at night, to help you not wake up from a painful body part? And only on nights after you were particularly active in the daytime, so not even on a consistent basis? Was it safe to do? Did it mess with your sleep on nights you weren't taking it?

 

Back story .. .I have arthritic feet, and it's been getting worse, to the point that I can hardly run. I have new orthotics that help, but I still wake up in the middle of the night with mucho pain after days on which I've hiked or played tennis or something active on my feet. So last night I thought I'd try a leftover vicodin (I played tennis yesterday), and lo and behold I slept all night. I go back to the doctor in a month, so I will definitely talk to him about it, but is this stupid of me? Or just normal pain management?

post #2 of 22

you wouldn't be posting this unless you were concerned about it, so stop until you see the doctor. If he/she is not helping you to your satisfaction, ask to be referred to a pain specialist. Good luck.

post #3 of 22

Do you do any mobility work with your feet?

How often do you walk around just barefoot?

NSAIDs on any sort of regular basis is not good.

Also ,how much/how far are you running? Are you running in a pair of those high priced running shoes that only promote heel striking and line the pockets of Nike?

I used to pop Advil like crazy for arthritis in neck,back,shoulder.

Haven't touched one one in over a year and a half. Never felt better. The stuff is evil.

post #4 of 22

I've had  some sort of arthritis, but the Vicodin/doctor prescribed/ didn't do anything for my pain.  People getting high with it, but wasn't  working for me...

I started feeling 10X better, when I started taking Glucosamine...

post #5 of 22

http://whole9life.com/fish-oil/

 

Make sure your getting enough fish oil.

Especially if your still eating processed foods,and grains.

The link above is a calculator to help you figure out the right amount.

You need to punch in the numbers every time you buy a different brand.

post #6 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mom View Post

you wouldn't be posting this unless you were concerned about it, so stop until you see the doctor. If he/she is not helping you to your satisfaction, ask to be referred to a pain specialist. Good luck.


I'm only concerned about it because I don't really know ... I was concerned about some NSAID use a few years ago, asked my doctor about it, and she laughed and said I was not anywhere near the problem doses. It doesn't seem like taking 2 or 3 a week would turn you into a junkie, especially before I see the doctor, but I would like to get off my butt a little more before summer is over.

post #7 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by loboskis View Post

Do you do any mobility work with your feet? No, what does it entail?

How often do you walk around just barefoot? Almost never, since I had plantar fasciitis way back when and doctor told me not to. Plus, it already feels like I'm walking on pebbles. I have basically no cushioning left on the bottom of my feet, and my sesamoids are trashed. I have a titanium implant in my right toe, and my left toe has started developing hallux rigidus, too.

NSAIDs on any sort of regular basis is not good. I know, and I limit their use, but I really can't do much athletically without them. Talked to my doctor a few years ago because I was concerned, and she said the amount I am using is fine. Whatever that means.

Also ,how much/how far are you running? Are you running in a pair of those high priced running shoes that only promote heel striking and line the pockets of Nike? I don't run anymore. When I said I could barely run, I mean, like, a block. And I was a competitive soccer player for years, into college, so it isn't that I don't know how or don't like to. Now I play tennis, so I run only short distances, but repeatedly. And all the other footwork involved, of course. I quit playing singles (competitively) a few years ago.

I used to pop Advil like crazy for arthritis in neck,back,shoulder.

Haven't touched one one in over a year and a half. Never felt better. The stuff is evil.

I've been taking both glucosamine and fish oil for several years. But according to the calculator below, probably not enough fish oil.
 

post #8 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by segbrown View Post

Has anyone ever used vicodin (or related) painkillers only at night, to help you not wake up from a painful body part? And only on nights after you were particularly active in the daytime, so not even on a consistent basis? Was it safe to do? Did it mess with your sleep on nights you weren't taking it?

 

Back story .. .I have arthritic feet, and it's been getting worse, to the point that I can hardly run. I have new orthotics that help, but I still wake up in the middle of the night with mucho pain after days on which I've hiked or played tennis or something active on my feet. So last night I thought I'd try a leftover vicodin (I played tennis yesterday), and lo and behold I slept all night. I go back to the doctor in a month, so I will definitely talk to him about it, but is this stupid of me? Or just normal pain management?I

 

 

Normal pain management IMHO.


I'm not a big believer in taking anything that masks pain, especially that is addicting, unless I have a good reason.  One of my concerns (aside from addiction) is that the pain is there for a reason (don't use me I hurt).  However, there have been times that I needed to do something, or it was post surgery, that made it necessary to take but I did it with the understanding I should treat my knee, shoulder, back or whatever, as if it was hurting.  You don't want to mask the pain so you can do something that will only make matters worse or more painful.

 

Taking something to ease the pain so you can sleep, sounds very reasonable.  As long as you have a plan, and some nights that you don't take anything.  The breaks also help (I think) from having to increase the dose.  You also aren't taking it before you do something active but after. 

 

I don't think taking something, that was given to you by a doctor (albeit for a different reason) is harmful but you should check with the doctors office.  I know your appt isn't for a month, but most will let you call in a question or have some sort of online thing that you can ask simple questions with and usually get a reply within a day.  I bet if you called in and asked for something to take and explain your reason, as long as you and your Dr. already have a relationship, the Dr. will probably prescribe something for you to take until your appt.

 

Is there something you can do post exertion that will help ease the discomfort and waking you up (i.e. ice)?

 

Sleep is very precious to me and I have done this very thing a few times.

 

Sleep well,

Ken

post #9 of 22

When ever I get an injury (e.g. broken radius, clavicle, scapula, etc.) I take a couple of oxycodone, percocet, or the like about 1/2 hour before bed.  I don't take any during the day, but I find good rest is good for the healing process. 

 

Works for me.

 

I haven't taken them as a permanent solution for permanent pain though.  I say you should take something for the pain, and if Doctors can't prescribe it because they are afraid you'll get addicted, that's just sad.  YOU decide to take the drugs or not; there is no addiction.  In my strong-willed opinion of course.

 

lack of activity makes arthritis worse imho so being told not to do something probably didn't help.  However not being able to do something means doing it makes things worse.  You have to find an activity balance.  Good luck with that.

post #10 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post

 ...but I find good rest is good for the healing process. 

 



post #11 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post

lack of activity makes arthritis worse imho so being told not to do something probably didn't help.  However not being able to do something means doing it makes things worse.  You have to find an activity balance.  Good luck with that.

Yeah, that's the whole thing right there. I've figured it out pretty well for my knees, but when it's your FEET, doing anything hurts (except skiing). I need more time on the bike, but that just doesn't do it for me like other sports. (And the last thing I need is to break my collarbone or something ... I'm golden above the waist. Everything below is arthritic to some extent, though.) I guess the golf clubs beckon .. I've been resisting, but that cart sounds good ...
 

post #12 of 22

More time in the pool? 

 

post #13 of 22


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by segbrown View Post



I've been taking both glucosamine and fish oil for several years. But according to the calculator below, probably not enough fish oil.
 

Stay away from any painkiller with the exception of aspirin and Tylenol.  Prescription pain killers are serious business and even if you don't develop an addiction there are other subtler but similar issues.  You don't have to be addicted to pain killers to have them become too much a part of your life.  Sometimes it's hard to realize when you are playing with fire.


I have been following Loboski's leads for years now and they have really paid off for me.

 

Fish oil - I take Carlson with lemon flavor.  It's liquid and does the trick for me.  I take a dose equal to 8 which is a little shy of what's recommended.  Most people when directed to take fish oil by their doctor take a single or double dose which is inadequate.  You will hear a lot of people say liquid fish oil is disgusting.  It is not.  Try it for your self.

 

I also take Glucosomine.

 

I would like to suggest "active recovery".  Rest days should include some activity, maybe hiking or swimming.

 

I take Gaba in the evening.  It's real mild and helps me sleep.  I have huge problems with sleep due to muscle and joint pain.  I try to eat right (Paleo) and make rest a part of my training.

 

Good luck Seg, and keep moving,

 

post #14 of 22
Thread Starter 

So, thought I'd update. The severe pain went away after a couple of weeks, so no more problem there. As an aside, I started going after the arthritis with a bunch of different things, and I do feel better. Some salesman at REI told me that celery juice cured his arthritis, so I bought a juicer and have been doing that, and just paying more attention to my food in general. I also started taking celery seed capsules on the days I don't get juice.

 

I also started systemic enzymes ... I'm using Wobenzym N. Really interesting stuff here, but I'm still a little hazy on it all. I hear they are used a lot in Europe but not so much here in the US.

 

Finally, new shoes ... FitFlops! I know I'm supposed to wear my orthotics as much as possible, but face it, it's summer, my feet are hot, I'm a girl, I don't want to be in sneakers all the time. One day I found some knockoffs for $8, and they were soooo comfy. I don't buy into the "tone your legs" stuff necessarily, it's just that they are sorta cushy (thick sole) and a bit rockered (just like skis), so easier on my toes.

 

I tried the GABA, but sometimes I got a headache, not sure if it's the GABA or not. And I was waking in the middle of the night too often still ... but that coudl have been something else. Not taking it right now.

 

All in all, I feel better. Played 2 hr of doubles yesterday on hard courts and feet feel fine today. Some pain during play, but nothing severe. And I have a fairly painful joint on my right middle finger that has improved a LOT, so that is the proof aside from the orthotics that something else is helping, too.

 

Unfortunately, I did this all VERY unscientifically by doing it at the same time, so I have no idea what is working, really. But something is. I was impatient, though.

post #15 of 22

If you want to figure out what's working, stop doing one thing one at a time.  This could be tricky because it could be a combination of things.

post #16 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by L&AirC View Post

If you want to figure out what's working, stop doing one thing one at a time.  This could be tricky because it could be a combination of things.


Yeah, that's what I planned on doing. I don't think I've hit a high enough dosage of the enzymes, actually, so I might stop that and then start over after a couple of weeks. There are several ways to use them, I'm still trying to figure it all out.

post #17 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by segbrown View Post

So, thought I'd update. The severe pain went away after a couple of weeks, so no more problem there. As an aside, I started going after the arthritis with a bunch of different things, and I do feel better. Some salesman at REI told me that celery juice cured his arthritis, so I bought a juicer and have been doing that, and just paying more attention to my food in general. I also started taking celery seed capsules on the days I don't get juice.

 

I also started systemic enzymes ... I'm using Wobenzym N. Really interesting stuff here, but I'm still a little hazy on it all. I hear they are used a lot in Europe but not so much here in the US.

 

Finally, new shoes ... FitFlops! I know I'm supposed to wear my orthotics as much as possible, but face it, it's summer, my feet are hot, I'm a girl, I don't want to be in sneakers all the time. One day I found some knockoffs for $8, and they were soooo comfy. I don't buy into the "tone your legs" stuff necessarily, it's just that they are sorta cushy (thick sole) and a bit rockered (just like skis), so easier on my toes.

 

I tried the GABA, but sometimes I got a headache, not sure if it's the GABA or not. And I was waking in the middle of the night too often still ... but that coudl have been something else. Not taking it right now.

 

All in all, I feel better. Played 2 hr of doubles yesterday on hard courts and feet feel fine today. Some pain during play, but nothing severe. And I have a fairly painful joint on my right middle finger that has improved a LOT, so that is the proof aside from the orthotics that something else is helping, too.

 

Unfortunately, I did this all VERY unscientifically by doing it at the same time, so I have no idea what is working, really. But something is. I was impatient, though.

This is great news.

I too am a believer in Juicing, but I got away from it when my juicer broke and it took time to replace it so I broke the routine.

 

Another thing besides the Celery that has helped with foot problems is dried cherries, which are known for circulation and gout recovery.  

My mom has had problems with arthritis in her feet, and she swears by eating a handful of dried cherries a day to keep the foot pain away.
 

post #18 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trekchick View Post


Another thing besides the Celery that has helped with foot problems is dried cherries, which are known for circulation and gout recovery.  

My mom has had problems with arthritis in her feet, and she swears by eating a handful of dried cherries a day to keep the foot pain away.
 


Oooh, good to know. Cherries taste much better than celery! (Celery just makes me want a bloody mary, it's been a hard pavlovian thing to break.)

post #19 of 22

As far as the enzymes go, knock yourself out..... but your body generally makes the right amount of most of what you need (if you eat good foods and don't have any medical conditions). As I understand it, the arthritic pain has subsided, but your nighttime awakening has persisted?

 

Simple sleep hygiene is very important and oft ignored. We tend to prescribe all sorts of meds for insomnia, but often more success can be found by eliminating caffeine/alcohol/nicotine, practicing psychological stress relief, exercising regularly and going to bed early. Caffeine is a killer; it's a powerful drug with a long half-life and even a cup of coffee in the morning has an effect at night. Alcohol is also a killer, you may fall asleep more easily, but it's restless sleep. Changing the way you deal with psychological stressors should also not be underestimated: be it yoga, meditation, stretching, whatever...... Also, any heavy food and TV/internet usage within a few hours of bed should be avoided.

 

If you do all of these free (!!!!!!) things for two weeks and still have problems, you can try sleep drugs...... starting with melatonin.... no success? > low dose benadryl.... still no success? move on to the wide world of benzo-like pharmaceuticals (Ambien, Lunesta, etc etc). This is all part of the 'do as I say, not as I do' territory, considering I have drunk about 15 cups of coffee during an ER shift :)

 

It sounds like you're off them, but taking any kind of opioid unless you absolutely need it is a colossally bad idea..... and the NSAIDs are fine in low dose, occasional use, it's just chronic use prevents your stomach from protecting itself and high doses fry your kidneys.

post #20 of 22
Thread Starter 


Nope, the severe pain was causing me to wake up, that was the whole point. Otherwise, why would I want a painkiller?

 

Benadryl is what I use whenever I can't sleep, but usually it isn't a problem. If someone could keep my husband from snoring, I'll be golden. ;-)

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bizurk View Post

 As I understand it, the arthritic pain has subsided, but your nighttime awakening has persisted?

post #21 of 22

^^^ that's when the bloody mary comes in handy.

post #22 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by segbrown View Post

Has anyone ever used vicodin (or related) painkillers only at night, to help you not wake up from a painful body part? 


Dr House, is that you? Still looking for the pills? Thought you are clean now...

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