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Lines in Bumps-Lines everywhere else?

post #1 of 17
Thread Starter 

So Bob's Bump video has me thinking, some of you may not have seen it but it's a demonstration video of various ways to ski bumps.

 

My question is, if there are so many ways to ski bumps properly, why aren't there so many different ways to ski steeps, groomed, crud and other conditions around a ski area that is deemed proper and accepted skiing?

 

post #2 of 17

Aren't there?

post #3 of 17

How about a link to Bob's video?  And yes, aren't there lots of ways to ski everything else?
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lars View Post

So Bob's Bump video has me thinking, some of you may not have seen it but it's a demonstration video of various ways to ski bumps.

 

My question is, if there are so many ways to ski bumps properly, why aren't there so many different ways to ski steeps, groomed, crud and other conditions around a ski area that is deemed proper and accepted skiing?

 

post #4 of 17

Lars is referring to a video clip that Bob put up for limited previews in a couple of our private forums--which only those with permissions can view at this time. The clip is one of many that will be in the multimedia edition of The Complete Encyclopedia of Skiing, which we hope to have available on EpicSki this fall. The PDF text version is currently available for download by clicking the link. 

post #5 of 17



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lars View Post

So Bob's Bump video has me thinking, some of you may not have seen it but it's a demonstration video of various ways to ski bumps.

 

My question is, if there are so many ways to ski bumps properly, why aren't there so many different ways to ski steeps, groomed, crud and other conditions around a ski area that is deemed proper and accepted skiing?

 

Hey Lars!

 

Sounds as if you like the video....some rippin skiing for sure....all genders....all sizes all types of turns and quite the age range....even a mix of pros and a real good skiing amiture or two.  The rest of you guys will love it when you see it. BUT....show that video at HH's site....nailbender's group, TGR and a number of other places and you may find it to not universally accepted as you (and I) have.

 

There are MANY ways to ski steeps / groomed and other conditions at ski areas that are proper.  The problem is what is "deemed proper and accepted skiing" to some may not be the case for others. (and certainly not the case on an Internet site lately!)

 

When we going bump'in Lars?

 



 

post #6 of 17


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post

Aren't there?





Quote:
Originally Posted by Lars View Post

So Bob's Bump video has me thinking, some of you may not have seen it but it's a demonstration video of various ways to ski bumps.

 

My question is, if there are so many ways to ski bumps properly, why aren't there so many different ways to ski steeps, groomed, crud and other conditions around a ski area that is deemed proper and accepted skiing?

 


June 30, 2010

 

Lars:

 

Good point.  Never thought of it that way.  My "lack" of inquisitiveness and "acceptance" of dogma is probably the main inhibitor of my further advancement in skiing (plus other reasons as well).

 

I believe you have hit the nail on the head and that this might be the reason we have such long drawn treatise on proper/correct skiing on this forum .

 

Think snow,

 

CP

post #7 of 17

 

 

Quote:
 deemed proper and accepted skiing

That begs a huge question--

 

by whom?

 

Ideally, the skier doesn't give a rip about what anyone thinks about his or her skiing, so long as he or she is having fun. In fact, I'd argue that the moment you start thinking about what anyone thinks about your skiing, you stop having fun, unless of course "Lookeeme!" is key to your enjoyment. That said, matters like being in good enough balance that you don't fall down, using the available forces instead of one's own brawn, controlling the rate of descent so it's sustainable over a run--these matters can be accurately judged by my senile Aunt Betty in the nursing home. These are not matters of opinion, they either are or are not happening.   


Edited by nolo - 7/1/10 at 9:22am
post #8 of 17
Quote:

Quote:Originally Posted by CharlieP View Post
 

I believe you have hit the nail on the head and that this might be the reason we have such long drawn treatise on proper/correct skiing on this forum .

 

 

"Proper/Correct" skiing?  Heck, some can't even agree on an acceptable way to talk about skiing!  

 

 

 

In many ways reading this forum is like digging through a Garage Sale:  We find ourselves sorting through gobs of other people's accumulated 'stuff';  They're peddling items to which they have long standing sentimental attachments;  And they wont leave you alone without your accepting some of it...

 


.ma

post #9 of 17

Hey Lars,

 

After many years of being bashed for my own 'way of skiing' by a wide assortment of groups/people I think I might have an answer to your open query.

 

Over time I've noticed that 'acceptable and proper' seems far more related to the personal expectations of specific observers than to any mechanical/bio-mechanical selection of movement patterns or style.   Even if we were to ski a mathematically provable 'perfect' set of turns - somebody would criticize that skiing because it doesn't match their own personal preferences, expectations and past tutelage about 'what's right'.

 

I also suspect some skiers develop a bit of style and line snobbishness in terrain they believe themselves to ski well in though have less snobbishness about terrain they may not ski as well since they don't have as much perceived personal capability.  There's also adopted snobbishness where a disciple of an authoritative mentor adopts the broadcast snobbishness of that mentor even though the disciple may ski nowhere near as well.

 

 

I've skied with people who believe the only correct line/style on steeps is to ski straight down the fall line athletically hopping from edge-set to edge-set and using primarily leg strength to control speed and direction.  After many years of skiing this way a skier may have 'tree trunk legs' so it's quite easy for themselves to ski this way and permits them to sneer at others lacking such strength/athleticism as being 'bad skiers' since they aren't able to emulate this pattern.

 

Personally I've adopted an exploratory mentality about skiing and no longer place generalized valuations on styles skied nor lines chosen.  When I see clinicians, my students or even passers-by doing something 'different' I try figuring out the actual pattern I'm seeing and then examine/explore it for inherent strengths and weaknesses without regard to its acceptability in the eyes of anyone else. 

 

I certainly learn a lot more doing this than by endlessly optimizing a singular skiing style or by perpetually defending long held beliefs.

 

.ma

post #10 of 17
Thread Starter 

First of all let me say I'm sorry and forgot everyone didn't see the video my thread is about. It's an awesome video and well done by a very talented guy.

 

second, UL. I'm Jonesing at the thought of doing some bumps with you.

 

I like your thoughts nolo and Michael, you are reading my mind and I'm happy with the way this discussion is going.

 

Thanks Charlie for your thoughts.

 

There's more to discuss here and my point after watching bob's video is although all the skiers skiing different lines aren't technically sound in their methods, does it have to be perfect?

 

Can't we apply various lines of attach for other slopes and conditions? Does it all have to be technically sound before it is deemed good skiing? Does anyone ski perfect lines every run? And does it matter or should it?

 

 

 

post #11 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lars View Post

 Does anyone ski perfect lines every run? And does it matter or should it?

 

 

 



Beauty is in the eye of the beholder---and whomever they are trying to impress.  As for "perfect"??

post #12 of 17

I got it!

 

Skiing is not a game of perfect. And neither is golf. 

post #13 of 17

As I've posted before, I see skiing as very similar to a musical improvisation.  The chord changes are analogous to the mountain/slope - there are parameters you need to work within.  Beyond that anything goes and the beauty is that unlike performing a solo where you are inevitably judged by others, skiing is for ourselves only.  Playing with line, speed, etc. is personal expression.

 

I once was improvising on the piano alone and came up with what I thought was some beautiful stuff.  My first thought was to try to write it down "no that would break the freedom of the experience" I thought.  Then I thought I should at least record it because it was so good others could hear it.

 

My decision was that no, this is for now and for me only.

 

That's the way I see skiing at it's ultimate.

 

(Of course the other side of the coin in answer to nolo's querie "by whom?" is if you're taking a certification exam.)

post #14 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by nolo View Post

I got it!

 

Skiing is not a game of perfect. And neither is golf. 



I grew up playing a lot of golf with a man named Sam Parks. He was a fairly proficient player in his day. His favorite expression was "golf is a game of good misses".

 

I would say that also applies to skiing..   

post #15 of 17

And a corollary to that one: Golf/skiing are all about recovery. 

post #16 of 17

Lars, quite the teaser post here.  Looking forward to seeing Bob's video at some point.

 

Thanks for the mini spoiler Louie.  One characteristic that I would consider "good" bump skiing would be whenever a skier pushes their ability level, whether it's challenging the technical line, carrying more speed down the zipperline, or simply attempting to hold a tighter line when ski natural terrain as examples.

 

I like what Nolo said and I'd take it even one step further.  Recoveries, successful or not, are trademarks of skiers pushing their abilities and comfort zone  and should be appreciated for the effort/risk taken.

 

Here's a video of SV kids pushing their limits down the course working on moving from pivot turns to deflected carved turns, some pretty good air too.  I really like Trevor's run @ 6:50 for a 14 yr. old.

 

 

post #17 of 17

Like SkiMangoJazz, I was thinking of a musical link.

 

One of the best jazz musicians of all time, and one of the best trumpet players as well, was Dizzy Gillespie.  That guy could play rings around anyone alive or dead.  He was unbelievably fast and accurate with a great high range (all technically difficult). 

 

However, if you watched him play, he did everything wrong.  He puffed out his cheeks to an amazing, almost gross, degree.  This should have made playing the trumpet with any kind of decent tone and accuracy impossible.  Trumpet teachers of ALL stripes constantly hound their students to keep their cheeks in so they won't puff out.  It makes total sense and is the proper way to play, but Dizzy didn't do it.

 

Who could tell tell Dizzy Gillespie that he wasn't playing properly?  Hah!  Forget it.  Nobody could!

 

Sometimes there is more than one way to do it.

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