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Black toe from roof of toe box?

post #1 of 15
Thread Starter 

I got a pair of Nordica Hot Rod 85's last season. I went to an experienced boot fitter a couple times over the season to get a heel lift, Instaprint insoles and my liner cooked. I lock down my ankle buckle as tight as it goes. I wear ultrathin socks. The boots are an aggressive shell fit, and have properly been sized inline with the methods the experts use, that post in this forum. If I get some air and land even the slightest bit in the backseat I will experience some severe pain in my right toe. Thankfully I didn't lose the nail, but another week in the season.. could be another story.

 

Now after going through the the above, by getting the boots properly fitted: I'm wondering what still may be causing my black toe/toe pain? 

 

My personal theory is that my toe is not actually hitting the end of the toe box, but rather the top. Reasons I believe this to be the case are:

 

1) When removing liners I notice a huge indent on the liner foam in the toe box area. Bootfitter noticed this too, but didn't think much of it other than it was strange. Wife has Hot Rod women's model and they don't have the indent (liners are stiffer material too).

 

2) Blackness of toe seems to indicate pressure is coming from above or near root of nail, not the end. (Not very scientific, I know.)

 

 

Any ideas for a next step to try? I've never really experienced this type of toe pain, in any prior boots. (Been through a lot of pairs growing up ;) )

 

Should I consider melting the shell to make more room at the top of the toe box, or am I barking up the wrong tree?

post #2 of 15

Hi spknmike

 

    I would have to question how you tighten your ankle buckle.

 

     True story.  I had a friend who had a similar problem to yours--- we stopped on a trail one day and he complained of his toes hurting---I asked if he had his ankle tight--he replied yes---I took off my skis and went over and used both hands and moved the buckle 4 ladder rungs.

      I asked what he meant when he said he had it tight---he said it had gotten hard to close the buckle---which means nothing if the shell hasn't closed in around the ankle.

 

 It needs to be gripping your ankle in order to hold your heel back in the shell.     You may need to add leverage to the buckle in order to close it sufficiently enough.  Tighten it until it hurts (is uncomfortable) then back off till it is wearable long term.  You could try this in the house and try kicking the boot toe into the floor to see if the toe still bumps.

 

Happy Skiing

post #3 of 15

I agree with Mike

 

Try this as well- after buckling , flex agressively forward and you will most likely find the second or ankle buckle is now looser in the flexed position so redo that one at this point, while your foot has been forced farther back in the shell.  Now it will not slide ahead again nearly as much.

 

This is actually why Racers and many expert skiers put up with boots that are too short.  In reality they want boots that are small enough in the ankle area to prevent movement.  they can actually touch the front and still not have their toes slam against the end as the close fitting ankle area prevents ANY back and forth movement.

 

good luck

post #4 of 15
Thread Starter 

Thanks for the ideas, Mike and Sandy. :)

 

I will try to lock them down a bit tighter, and I have read that suggestion in the past in this forum. Maybe I'm not quite tightening it to the point it's uncomfortable?

 

I do usually have it on the 2nd to last buckle "rung" -- so I'm running out of room. I think I can still get it a little tighter, though. Hope that last rung is enough to make the difference.

 

Lastly, just to eliminate some ideas: Any chance it could be that the boot is just too wide for my feet (101mm last) or has too much room in the ankle area?

post #5 of 15



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by spknmike View Post

Thanks for the ideas, Mike and Sandy. :)

 

I will try to lock them down a bit tighter, and I have read that suggestion in the past in this forum. Maybe I'm not quite tightening it to the point it's uncomfortable?

 

I do usually have it on the 2nd to last buckle "rung" -- so I'm running out of room. I think I can still get it a little tighter, though. Hope that last rung is enough to make the difference.

 

Lastly, just to eliminate some ideas: Any chance it could be that the boot is just too wide for my feet (101mm last) or has too much room in the ankle area?

You might need to have another hole drilled into the ankle buckle strap where the ladder mounts in order to get a tighter fit.  Most manufacturers provide an extra hole or indentation to drill for this purpose---pull the strap open and look inside to see if this is the case---then get out your drill and go at it.  You don't want to be on the last ladder rung out on the hill as this will limit your ability to tighten.  Which size boot are you in---what size shoe do you wear?  How wide are your feet in mm.?
 

post #6 of 15
Thread Starter 

Widest part of my foot is right at 100mm.

 

I wear 27.5 mondo in these boots, 315mm sole, and normally wear a size 12 street shoe.

 

EDIT: Just measured using Shoes.com printable size chart and came up right around 11. (mens_sizechart.pdf) Still never seem to fit into 11 street shoes.

 

Thanks again for the help and insight!


Edited by spknmike - 6/24/10 at 3:36pm
post #7 of 15

the 100mm last is in a 26.5 shell, in a 27.5 it will be around 104mm wide (depending on the model this will vary a little) it may be that there is just too much volume in the boot and that is allowing your foot to move back and forth

 

you have footbeds, the shell size is good for length so it is either volume allowing you to move or .... does your toe turn up at all? if it is and it is that which is hitting the top of the shell then either stretching or grinding a bit of extra height inot the toe box will help the situation, possibly in the shell possibly removing some thickness from the footbed or the zeppa, depends on the boot and your foot

post #8 of 15

I agree with what these guys are saying, but at a size 11 you are at the very end of what is possible in a 27 without grinding the toe box out or stretching of some sort.  If you are a 12 then all bets are off.  Suggest you go to a ski shop with a Mondo measurer and see what size you are.  Speaking personally although I can do the conversion in the store I'd really always rather work from Mondo sizing.

 

Lou

post #9 of 15
Thread Starter 

Resurrecting this thread to ask a couple follow up questions, now that it's time to boot shop....

 

As an update, I finally got the toe box ground out a bit, and after playing with the boots for awhile I finally have given in and decided they aren't for my feet. I still have too much volume/play in the ankle area, allowing my foot to move forward/backward in the boot. I can buckle them all the way down the the last rung on the #2 buckle and still have way too much room.

 

Any tips when I'm buying new boots? I've just began to look and got a couple suggestions already to start on. I'm looking for something with a stiffer flex (110-120?) and tighter ankle. (More info on my foot is in replies above)

 

Here's what has been suggested by the fitter that made my footbeds:

 

Lange RX 130

Rossignol Sensor3 110

Salomon 9CS or X3 CS

Head Vector 110 (brand not available locally)

 

Love to hear some of your thoughts on specific models and any tips you might have. And in general, what I should look for in a good ankle fit?


Edited by spknmike - 10/12/10 at 6:12pm
post #10 of 15
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lou Rosenfeld View Post

I agree with what these guys are saying, but at a size 11 you are at the very end of what is possible in a 27 without grinding the toe box out or stretching of some sort.  If you are a 12 then all bets are off.  Suggest you go to a ski shop with a Mondo measurer and see what size you are.  Speaking personally although I can do the conversion in the store I'd really always rather work from Mondo sizing.

 

Lou


Mondo came up at 27.5cm

post #11 of 15

Don't know about these guys but you need to help me a little bit.  Nobody that measures Mondo 27 also wears a size 12 shoe.  10.5 yes, 11 maybe yes.  Larger definitely not.  So we'll assume a 27 and hope that the reason you were bashing your toe was the boot was to large volume to hold your foot properly.  What can you tell us about your foot width and shape in general?

 

Lou

post #12 of 15
Thread Starter 

You are correct -- I was wrong on the size 12. It must of been strange sizing to the specific shoe style or insole I'd been wearing at the time. I fit into 11 most often, now that I've bought new (street shoe) insoles and shoes.

 

 

I have a fairly boney foot (instep) and ankle. Foot measures right around 100mm width, at widest. I wear arch support insoles (in street shoes) and footbeds with arch support (in ski boots). I measured and came up with Mondo 27.5 at a ski shop recently. (I thought 27.5cm = mondo 27.5 is why I added the cm -- is this not the conversion?) I've been using a heel lift under my liner as well, as recommended to me, both by the fitter that put me in the Hot Rod's last season and the fitter that made my footbeds.

 

I can take other specific measurements if it would be more helpful.


Edited by spknmike - 10/12/10 at 6:15pm
post #13 of 15

can't tell you wnat will fit but i can say of all the boots listed the Head Vector is definately an odd one out, with a 103mm last it will fit the forefoot like a bucket

 

the Langes may be the way forward based on what you have said, but you need to work with the fitter and try them

post #14 of 15

Agree with Colin that the Vector should be eliminated.  Assuming your 100m forefoot width is measured weight-bearing I'd be looking at 98mm boots, have very minor work done and you should have a great fit.  Now can't tell which ones to recommend without more information on your foot shape (high instep, etc. but at this point some time with the Wikis and at a store will help. 

 

What is the purpose of the heel lift?  As a general rule, to just throw a heel-lift into every boot as a fit aid is a mistake that can screw up stance.

 

Lou

post #15 of 15
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lou Rosenfeld View Post

Agree with Colin that the Vector should be eliminated.  Assuming your 100m forefoot width is measured weight-bearing I'd be looking at 98mm boots, have very minor work done and you should have a great fit.  Now can't tell which ones to recommend without more information on your foot shape (high instep, etc. but at this point some time with the Wikis and at a store will help. 

 

What is the purpose of the heel lift?  As a general rule, to just throw a heel-lift into every boot as a fit aid is a mistake that can screw up stance.

 

Lou

 

Thanks for the tips. I wouldn't of thought to look at 98mm boots -- I know the Lange RX 130 Pro is 97mm -- should I try that on as well?

 

As for the heel lift, they had me do the test where you are sitting and flex your forefoot/toes upward, with heel on floor. I apparently lack this flexibility. Am I understanding this correctly?

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