EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Ski Gear Discussion › Mountain Hardware Vertical Jacket vs. Arc'teryx Stinger Jacket (Including some info I found out about Gore-tex Pro Shells)
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Mountain Hardware Vertical Jacket vs. Arc'teryx Stinger Jacket (Including some info I found out about Gore-tex Pro Shells)

post #1 of 26
Thread Starter 

Hello Everyone,

 

I am trying to decide between the Mountain Hardware Vertical jacket and the Arcteryx Stinger jacket.  I like both the jackets, but the Mountain Hardware seems thinner and softer and I wonder if it is as durable as the Stinger.  Here are some of the issues factoring into my decision:

 

2 layer vs 3 layer Pro Shell:

Some report the Stinger to be a three layer pro shell and state that the Vertical is only 2 layers. Gore-tex confirmed that there are 2 different types of proshell – the 2 and 3 layer versions – but they both offer the same amount of protection as far as wind proof, waterproof, breathability, and durability. However, I called Mountain Hardware and they told me that their jacket is indeed a 3 layer pro shell.

 

Outer layer Marterials:

Arc'teryx told me that the pro shell is not the outside layer of the jacket but the middle two layers and that the exterior is another fabric all together.  They justified this by saying they have many different weights of  a pro shell, such as the 390 and 480N fabrics in the Stinger. Gore-tex contradicted this and said that the entire fabric itself is Gore-tex pro shell, including the outer layer. The Vertical is made with Gore-Tex Pro Shell Fabric 100% Nylon full dull plain weave construction, High filament count 2 ply textured nylon face fabric for a strong lightweight and extremely durable fabric. 100% nylon MicroGrid woven backer and DWR finish.

 This was all confusing and I was still trying to understand all the complexities of the different permutation of Pro shell at that time. However, when talking to mountain hardware they stated that the whole fabric IS the pro shell but Gore-tex certifies each pro shell individually with the manufacturing company.  Apparently they have a minimum standard but some companies may go above that standard.  Apparently, though not confirmed directly, Arc’teryx is one of those companies that go above and beyond.  One thing I will comment on is that when I proposed a hypothetical that if the jacket getting damaged while falling on a ice packed slope and sliding for about 30 ft at 20 – 30 mph, mountain hardware stated that if the jacket got frayed or ripped in that situation they would not cover the jacket where Arcteryx said they most probably would. Hmmmmmm.

 

Features and Fit:

The Vertical has many more technical features, such as more pockets and removable hood and powder skirt. The sleeves also fit a little better. The Stinger is much also much stiffer, and I don't know if it will soften up very quickly with use (Arc'teryx said it would not). The Vertical is much softer, and feels almost exactly by like the fabric on a Stingray, which is a Gore-tex soft shell, but the Vertical is a Pro shell, that has been confirmed by Gore-tex. Unfortunately I can’t seem to get a good fit on new Arc’teryx Jackets. I tried Snofun3’s Stinger in large and it fit me well, but when I went home and tried the sidewinder and Theta in medium and large they both seemed too big and the shoulders and sleeves were HUGE.  I have a Stingray in blue and that fit me a lot better.  It is almost like the hardness of the shell would not allow it to fall on my shoulders nicely(the stingray having a soft shell).

The other differences between the jackets are the following:

- The Stinger main zipper is waterproof with no external flap covering it while the Vertical has a flap covering the main zipper with sections of oval Velcro to affix it to the jacket.

- The Stinger has very thick, full Velcro on the sleeves to cinch them down, while the Vertical has the aforementioned ovals (I am concerned how long they will work well.)

- Stinger is longer

- Vertical has a couple of extra internal pockets

So that is all I have.  I thought I would post it here so maybe someone could use it in the future but also to get some thoughts on the matter.  If you have anything to offer, it would be greatly appreciated.

 

Kind Regards,

Mario

 

post #2 of 26

I'm sure when you purchase your ski jacket, it will be everything you'd hoped for.

post #3 of 26
Thread Starter 

Wow, no one has any thoughts on this?

post #4 of 26

Last year I bought a new Columbia jacket at a local thrift store.

I payed $5.00, the coat worked great for me, and I bought skis with the left over money.

You just do what you have to do.

post #5 of 26

I paid about ten times that much for my Columbia jacket, but it's Titanium.

post #6 of 26

Rod, jonpren, although Titanium is the best for belly button piercings, most people are just fine with surgical steel.

 

Mario, what kind of holder, d-ring or tether do they have for your lift ticket? Not jaggin round with ya it's a little thing i know. i bought a Marmot Rustler SKIJACKET from SAC great coat but it didn't have a place to attach a lift ticket, unless i just haven't found it yet.

post #7 of 26

Jimmy, if you ski at a place that requires you to show your pass often, just clip it to you pants belt loop, the pull loop on your pants or jacket pocket zipper.  Most places "out west" only really check pass's at the base or a couple of key areas.

post #8 of 26

I've owned a couple of each brand. Truth:

 

1) Go for the best zippers 

2) Go for the best location of pockets, inside and out, given how you open and close and reach and stash

3) Go for a powder skirt, whether it zips out is meaningless

4) Make sure the hood fits over your helmet

5) If you don't have a helmet, use the $$ to buy one, and Scotch Guard your current windbreaker

 

The other differences you're OCD-ing over, especially about two layer vs three layer are irrelevant unless you plan to use this climb K2 or film in AK. 

 

And if you already have a good jacket, that you're trying to match for fabric feel, why in *@#%!! are you hassling over a @%$&^!! new jacket? Go spend your money on something that counts, like lessons. Or wire it to me, if it's bothering you to have it in your account. 

post #9 of 26

Ya Finndog not really a problem for me at home or for someone with a seasons pass. Jacket does have a nice pocket on the arm for those etickies like they use at solitude and alta but at the canyons they have to scan your ticket every timeyou get on the lift and that can be a bit of a pain but sometimes its a cutie w/the scanner so thats not so bad.

 

esumsea what coler is your helmet? beyond --"truth" -- don't worry about whether the hood zips off or not but, Mario, a powder skirt is nice.

 

and don't forget the lift tickett tether.

post #10 of 26

if you really want a ticket pocket, you should look for more of a "resort" jacket, Spyder, Descente maybe a Columbia, Those jackets are designed more for that kind of stuff.

post #11 of 26

What i really wanted was a waterproof hardshell with a hood, the pocket on the arm was just gravy.  

post #12 of 26

jimmy, you should take a look at some of the stuff at Sierratradingpost is selling right now.  This is a link ot a Arc' teryx Beta LT jacket for $245!  Lots of cloudveil stuff: rpk's, hobacks, etc. Plus a bunch of Mtn hardware and more.  Not sure what's left but i would take a look.  Signup for the mailing list and get coupons for even more off.  I copied a link that's via my coupon, it may work.


Edited by Finndog - 6/17/10 at 10:55am
post #13 of 26
Thread Starter 

Yeah, following beyonds advice, I will probably go with the mountain hardware vertical.  The zippers are a little looser, it has more pockets, is cheaper and does not fit quite as nice.  If it turns out to be a mistake, I will buy an arcteryx next time.

post #14 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finndog View Post

jimmy, you should take a look at some of the stuff at Sierratradingpost is selling right now.  This is a link ot a Arc' teryx Beta LT jacket for $245!  Lots of cloudveil stuff: rpk's, hobacks, etc. Plus a bunch of Mtn hardware and more.  Not sure what's left but i would take a look.  Signup for the mailing list and get coupons for even more off.  I copied a link that's via my coupon, it may work.



Finndog baddog devildog don't look don't click can resist............................

post #15 of 26

So what did ya buy?

post #16 of 26

Aw I fell into it last year about this time. Decided after the season was over to take some of my teaching money and fix some chinks in the armor. Bought the Marmot coat and a pair of Salomon pants. Coat is Goretex performance two layer hardshell; pants are climapro, lightly insulated semisoft outer shell. Mainly was looking for something that was more water proof than ski school jacket; worked out pretty well, spent about $300 bucks total.

post #17 of 26
Thread Starter 

I decided to go with the Vertical.  The Arcteryx just did not fit as well.  It was poofy in the shoulders (and I have wide shoulders) probably because the arms were long.  The fabric just did not hang as nicely.  They looked a little tougher but we will see.  Also, I liked all the technical features of the Vertical with its removable powder skirt and hood (which I would never use anyway with my helmet). The zippers were also easier to close. 

 

If I regret the decision, I will buy an arcteryx next time, but I have a suspicion that I made the right choice and this jacket will be tough enough.

post #18 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by esumsea View Post
Also, I liked all the technical features of the Vertical with its removable powder skirt and hood (which I would never use anyway with my helmet).


Good choice; FWIW, in serious snow you put your hood over your helmet. Keeps blowing snow from working its way inside, which is not a pleasant sensation. 

post #19 of 26

Gotta' have a helmet, just as "beyond" states and for those high wind days going up a lift. You do have to be a little careful in tighter trees; especially some pines that have the lower dead branches, they can reach out and grab that hood! Skiing last April in Vail with Eric, a friend of Bush's; we were going through some uber rotten, manky slush, a tree branch snagged his hood, he fell backwards, sank down in to mank, I had to free his hood from the branch.

post #20 of 26

Finndog, Was the hood up? Mario you will use the hood trust us. I use mine on the lift when it's windy/cold/snowing, don't keep it up while i'm skiing as i think it cuts down my periferary vision. The hood was one of the things i was looking for when i bought this jacket.

post #21 of 26

No, his was down, that's where the problem can be. Some of the Arc's have  zipper or stow away hoods. It's an issue but I really haven't been hung like eric was, i imagine that if he had more speed (this was thick, heavy fall-through rotten snow) he would have just broken off the branch or it woud have ripped the hood. It was pretty funny actually...  (for me of course, not so much for him). I do pull mine up on days with blowing winds/heavy snow. It will block peripheral vision but at least it keeps the snow from invading your neck and down the jacket.

post #22 of 26

That's a graet shell, Of course, if you are a Size M shell and M pants, keep an eye out for the Annual Finn Approved gear blowout sales coming in August......

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by esumsea View Post

I decided to go with the Vertical.  The Arcteryx just did not fit as well.  It was poofy in the shoulders (and I have wide shoulders) probably because the arms were long.  The fabric just did not hang as nicely.  They looked a little tougher but we will see.  Also, I liked all the technical features of the Vertical with its removable powder skirt and hood (which I would never use anyway with my helmet). The zippers were also easier to close. 

 

If I regret the decision, I will buy an arcteryx next time, but I have a suspicion that I made the right choice and this jacket will be tough enough.

post #23 of 26
Thread Starter 

Nah, just a size large in shell and maybe medium in pants.  I think I am done with clothes, now it comes to the boots and skis!

I am hemorrhaging money I tells ya, Hemorrhaging!

post #24 of 26

ahh boots, yes, the boots, dont skimp there.  get them fit correctly

post #25 of 26

Thanks for this wonderful Review about the two products.  Though I prefer arcteryx jackets. I have one, and I do not regret having it.Like it very much!

 

 

 

 

post #26 of 26
Thread Starter 

My pleasure.  It is my small way to give back to the community.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Ski Gear Discussion
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Ski Gear Discussion › Mountain Hardware Vertical Jacket vs. Arc'teryx Stinger Jacket (Including some info I found out about Gore-tex Pro Shells)