Blending Movements - Page 17

Originally Posted by tdk6 

I thaught you said my turns were slipped?

Now I'm not sure what your meaning of "slipped" is; the track clip you showed was what I called "slipping turn." Had you "pure-carved," the "line" you left behind would be much curvier. And the last picture you showed was a RRT turn tracks, and you thought they were slipped?
 

Nice tracks tdk6. If I may, sometimes your inside ski smears. IMO which means squat,it a balance/movement issue.

Originally Posted by slider 

Nice tracks tdk6. If I may, sometimes your inside ski smears. IMO which means squat,it a balance/movement issue.

Given that steady and clean outside ski track, which reflects a steady movement of the momentum, so the problem may not be a "balance" issue, but the smeared inside ski track clearly indicates that the inside ski lacks "proper" high edge angle, and/or the pressure to drive it, imo.

inside ski lacks "proper" high edge angle, and/or the pressure to drive it, imo.

Agreed. Is the smearing caused by being in the backseat on the inside part of the body?

Or is it from too much tip pressure?

I'd venture a guess that the inside ski isn't too important to TDK simply because he is alway so focussed on pressuring the outside ski. So is it important how the inside ski tracks? Should we even worry about keeping the inside half of the body balanced over the inside ski? What would be the advantages of either? What would be the disadvantages of both?

IMO it is important for overall balance to keep the inside half of the body contemporaneous with the inside ski and the outside half contemporaneous with the outside ski. When the feet and the body are not moving together all sorts of thing occur. Skidding, inability to maintain balance, limited range of motion, excessive upper body tipping and rotation, etc...

The cure? It's not to tip and rotate the shoulders and assume a contrived position. That's just compensating for the inside half being out of balance. Speaking of Balance, it is like quicksilver and is constantly shifting as we turn. Chasing it forces us out of the cookie cutter turn production rut and into the world of constant movement. Seek a coach who can help you with your unique issues, not one who asks you to confrom to a final form and posed positions.

snowbender, here is how it whent: I showed the video of the tracks and you commented like this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by snowbender 

According to your tracks, you carved on outside ski and "slipped" on inside ski, similar to my tracks, the smearing on the inside of the turning tracks is the dead giveaway, so you are in what I called "slipping-turn."

So after looking at the video with all those turns you thaught they were slipping turns. Then I posted the frame capture of one of the turns from the same clip where my skis were cutting two clean track. Your responce is here: 

Quote:

Originally Posted by snowbender 

Originally Posted by tdk6 

Is this a slipped turn then?

 

 

No. RailRoad Tracks?

So are they RR-tracks or slipped turns? Note that in all the turns my outside ski is cutting a clean track. Sometimes my inside ski smears that is correct.

Quote:

Originally Posted by snowbender 

Originally Posted by tdk6 

I thaught you said my turns were slipped?

 

Now I'm not sure what your meaning of "slipped" is; the track clip you showed was what I called "slipping turn." Had you "pure-carved," the "line" you left behind would be much curvier. And the last picture you showed was a RRT turn tracks, and you thought they were slipped?
 

No, it really did not go like that. I showed you the clip and you told me the turns were slipped. Then I posted a phot from the same video with clean rr-tracks and asked if they were slipped because thats what you claimed they were. I just wanted your confirmation. But you changed your mind and said in the photo the tracks were pure carved rr-tracks. IMO you are giving somewhat confusing feedback.

Also, the "curviness" has nothing to do with if its a clean cut pure carved line or not. The turn radius is a result of many things. Mainly ski turn radius and speed. Also snow, pitch, edge tuning, stiffness, tip pressure, ski length, ski width, waxing etc. but mainly speed and shape of the ski.

Quote:

Originally Posted by slider 

Nice tracks tdk6. If I may, sometimes your inside ski smears. IMO which means squat,it a balance/movement issue.

Thanks. Yes, inside ski is smearing.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by justanotherskipro 

Or is it from too much tip pressure?

I'd venture a guess that the inside ski isn't too important to TDK simply because he is alway so focussed on pressuring the outside ski. So is it important how the inside ski tracks? Should we even worry about keeping the inside half of the body balanced over the inside ski? What would be the advantages of either? What would be the disadvantages of both?

IMO it is important for overall balance to keep the inside half of the body contemporaneous with the inside ski and the outside half contemporaneous with the outside ski. When the feet and the body are not moving together all sorts of thing occur. Skidding, inability to maintain balance, limited range of motion, excessive upper body tipping and rotation, etc...

 

The cure? It's not to tip and rotate the shoulders and assume a contrived position. That's just compensating for the inside half being out of balance. Speaking of Balance, it is like quicksilver and is constantly shifting as we turn. Chasing it forces us out of the cookie cutter turn production rut and into the world of constant movement. Seek a coach who can help you with your unique issues, not one who asks you to confrom to a final form and posed positions.

You are wrong. I do care if my inside ski tracks cleanly or not. But Im more interested in the outside ski cutting cleanly. Since I can do it on easy terrain I should be able to do it on steeper terrain as well. IMO Im also not in a very twisted and contrieved position. Please snap a frame from one of my videos so that I get a visual.
 

 I do not think anyone is pointing fingers at you tdk6.  Just a generalization. From what I've learned in my skiing which is minimal since I have many technical issues to sort out JASP has solid advice. Keep moving while skiing.

" I do not think anyone is pointing fingers at you tdk6.  Just a generalization. From what I've learned in my skiing which is minimal since I have many technical issues to sort out JASP has solid advice. Keep moving while skiing."

That was exactly my point TDK. Keep moving and balancing. But if you insist on proof of examples of posed skiing, well you did ask...

...all you have to do is look at the slow speed video you posted. Plent of posing there. Before you flame out though, I would ask you to consider what others have pointed out about that drill, it is more for introducing a concept but should not be used to imply or suggest tipping the shoulders is your intended (end) result. Why do I say that? Well the logical progression of the drill needs to include a blended application of the movement pattern you are featuring. In other words the change you introduced should appear in the skier's movements at the conclusion of the lesson. Your demo at the end of that video does not show much upper body tipping, which is the move you featured up to that point. See the inconsistency? See why I say the end result wasn't to actually use the upper body tipping to create hip angles. As I remember that was my advice back when you originally posted that video. For those who didn't read that thread I'll repost a shortened version here...

...TDK, remove the active lower body segment and replace it with a more congruent segment that clearly shows a blended application of the move you are featuring (shoulder and torso tipping). Which is totally different from the hip angulation you demonstrate in the final segment. I'm not saying the hips don't move in that video but it's as a consequence of the shoulder and upper body tipping, not by directly developing angles in the hip joint. If you want to target hip angulation, the movement needs to originate in the hips, not the upper torso and shoulders.

Beyond that I'm covering old ground to say reverse airplanes, peanut butter and jelly turns, and edge locked wedges are a useful tools for getting a student to experience a higher edge angle and an edge locked ski slicing across the snow pack. However, once they experience that feeling, it's time to move towards a less isolated and exaggerated application and eventually to a very blended application that incorporates a refined (much smaller) version of the new move.

Let me share a thought about hip angulation's role in skiing. It is a means to an end but isn't alway the most appropriate means to an end. Options are great but when we fall in love with one option and focus too much on it (to the exclusion of other options), we limit our ability to handle situations where other options would be more effective and appropriate.

Same can be said for trying to leave pencil tracks everywhere. Quite frankly that carve and carve some more mantra has been proven wrong by guys like Miller who throws in a stivot skid when and where he needs it. And he's not alone in doing so, regardless of the race course that goal (leaving pencil tracks) is never acheived since the gate setter does their level best to force the racers to do a variety of turns. Both skidded and carved. Don't get me wrong TDK, I've certainly set many practice courses where a racer can make consistently round carves but I've never seen that sort of course set on race day. It's simply not challenging enough to seperate the winner from the also rans.

My mantra? When you can do it all (at will), there isn't a slope on Earth you can't master. When you can't do it all, there will alway be slopes beyond your ability. So learn to be the most versatile you, you can possibly be!  

jasp, I agree with you. Try to be versatile. Dont stick to one technique. Try to master rr-tracks but dont forget how to unweight and how to effectively and precisely blend skills. In excess to carving rr-tracks you need to be able to skid and smear and take some air. Thats my mantra. Be versatile. But I always stick to very basic consepts and since I mostly work with kids it cannot be too technical or teoretical. The most effective coaching is sticking to the very basics of skiing.

The skiing clip in the bad rotation video was all I had on the HD when making the video. On the other hand I dont think it was totally bad since it was explained in the narration how it was different to the first segment. I think I will make a new edit and delete it since it seems to cause objections from the experts.