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M/A question - Page 2

post #31 of 44
Originally posted by SnoKarver:
right on nolo, doing video streams this here raises awareness of video analysis, and informed skiers will look for it as part of an instructors package. A lot more bang for the buck in a lesson.

2 of my 4 instructors have purchased(or are purchasing) their own video camera to enhance lessons to students (& training to others)
post #32 of 44
Thread Starter 

How about asking your instructors to save some of that video of you and post it here? After hearing you talk about your skiing, I for one would love the chance to observe.
post #33 of 44
As a training tool for instructor's, this is a great idea. What should be included with the motion analysis, though, is some Skill development ideas. This is what allows skiers to improve and helps us as instructors not to getted bogged down in analysis.

We also need to focus on what a skier's strengths are. If we build from these strength's, we are often more successful in getting results with our students. This also makes our lesson a more positive experience. Our student's leave feeling not only that they learned something, but they feel good about their skiing overall. This will keep them coming back for more.

Video analysis is a very useful tool in helping us with this, if used properly. The visual clues should be easy for our student's to understand and then put into action. If we focus on too much, then our student's will be confused while skiing. One or two little things usually get the best results. If we do more than that, then skiing becomes like doing taxes. Then what fun is that?

I would also like to address nolo's original comment that started this discussion. What would be more educational would be to look at several different skiers with ranging abilities. For those of you working on courses who are trying to develop their 'eye', I find that my most successful course candidates are the ones who start by looking at what they like about a person's skiing and then look to how they can make that student's skiing better. I hope this helps as a jumping off point.

I just found this website and have been reading some of the other topics. I think that it is a great venue for those of us who are passionate about skiing and teaching it to others. Keep up the good work everybody!
post #34 of 44
Welcome to Epicski Murrski.

Glad you found us..
post #35 of 44
Welcome, Murrski! I LOVE Sunshine Village! [img]smile.gif[/img] [img]smile.gif[/img] [img]smile.gif[/img] [img]smile.gif[/img]
post #36 of 44
Thread Starter 

In my opinion, what is lacking in the present ad hoc M/A discussions is two things. One, a process, such as murrski suggests. Two, a facilitator, who can guide us through the process.

I think M/A is not just for instructors anymore. The more I learn about the visual cortex and learning, the more convinced I am that this is an under-utilized and often poorly utilized tool.

In my opinion, M/A should not be cut-and-dried, but a learning experience that goes at least two questions deep: 1) is what I am seeing a cause or 2) is it an effect? This is a crucial thing, because:

Unless one carefully examines in order to ascertain if one's path is the path of truth, the slightest initial distortion later becomes a large distortion. This should be taken to heart.

(The Book of Five Rings, Miyamoto Musashi)

Welcome to the Family, murrski. You are a trainer, then? How would you suggest we set it up?

Thinking operationally--we would want to be able to watch movies, draw diagrams, talk, and save. Do you think a chat room with white board and video streamer would work, where you could save the discussion to a place at EpicSki to revisit as desired?

I'm sure there are many here who know a heck of a lot more than me about what's required...
post #37 of 44
Originally posted by nolo:

How about asking your instructors to save some of that video of you and post it here? After hearing you talk about your skiing, I for one would love the chance to observe.
Working on it Nolo

The one who currently has his own video has a tape one - so couldn't put it here - could I???
The other was looking to buy a digital when I was in Whistler(March) - not sure what he has done about that.
I have mentioned getting digital footage to the instructor I have been skiing with atm(my OTHER resort) - he is thinking we may be able to get some help from race dept people re that. We will work on that after I return from my month in Thredbo. He is an examiner/trainer & is VERY busy running precourse & it is our busiest season now. Sept will be Spring & things will settle a bit more then.

I will try to get at least some stills &/or tracks in the mean time. I own NADA good toys - not even a VCR in the house - all money goes to lessons for different things. So I will rely on friends that have some
post #38 of 44
Ooops -sorry [img]redface.gif[/img]
Welcome Murrski
post #39 of 44
Welcome Murrski.

Joining this thread late, so only read the last several posts (not enough time yet).

Yes watching others(or ourselves) on video and then having comments is good.

Something that helped me was a course I took at PSIA-E in the MAster Teacher Certification... Movement Analysis.

There was no video in the section I took (would have added), but what we did do was isolate the different movements to the extreme. Example, only flex your hips.... only rotate your shoulders... only lean forward... only weight your inside ski...

We examined what each item did through the turn, and then determined what to do to correct it.

Sometimes the way to "see' what the skier is doing wrong is to imitate them.
post #40 of 44
Originally posted by KeeTov:
Welcome Murrski.

Sometimes the way to "see' what the skier is doing wrong is to imitate them.
Oooo - that just reminded me - one of my ex-instructors used to do that(imitate me) - he would do half a run of 'his turns' (whatever we were working on) then he would do the other half as an exaggerated version of me(the main problem quite exaggerated) - so I could see the difference. He would just chose a nice small piece of terrain & I would ski down - then I would get my 'instant replay'.

It didn't help - so he stopped doing it so much & changed tactics - but apparently it used to work very well for a lot of people.
post #41 of 44
When I as an instructor try to ski like the student, it is not only to show them what they look like, but the idea behind the course, was for us to feel what is being done wrong. Once we had the "wrong" feeling, we were better able to describe what to do to correct it.

Glad your instructor changed his teaching technique when it wasn't registering.
post #42 of 44
Thanks for the warm welcome gang!

Yes Nolo, I am a trainer of sorts I guess you could say. I am a course conductor with the CSIA and a ski school director in Banff. I try to work with my staff as much as time permits. Gladly my assistant director passed his level IV last season, so he will now start along the path of becoming a course conductor here in Canada. He has been helping with instructor training for the past few years and is very good.

Back to the topic. One thing we use on our courses here in Canada to help teach our pro's a method for Skill Assessment and Skill Development, we used to call it detection & correction, is video. Each level of certification has a video for this purpose which is suited for that particular level. In a class room setting, the course conductor goes through the video with the course candidates to help the work on their eye. Each video has several skiers of varying abilities and has some lead in questions to help the students and guide their eye. I think that something like this would work well on line. Technically, I don't know how it would be set up, but I am sure that someone would have that knowledge. I would be more than willing to help with the skill assessment and development part.

I have invited some of my ski pro's to visit this site. I think it would be an excellent place for them to learn and grow and be in contact with other ski pro's. Hopefully we will see a few of them soon.

Keep it simple.
post #43 of 44

If you have a tape and VCR then all you need is a tv tuner card on your, or a friends, computer to upload your video
post #44 of 44
Hmmm - no VCR here - no spare money for toys like that...

But it may be easier to find someone with card than a digital camera ...

Thanks Tom [img]smile.gif[/img]
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