I think the drift makes it more interesting. The topic will recenter if it is strong enough or if it hasn't been played out after a few hundred posts.
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Active Weight Transfer - Beginner Lesson - Page 9post #241 of 2466/5/10 at 10:06ampost #242 of 2466/10/10 at 7:39pm
First video of AWT student clearly depicts a rotation or twisting of the outside leg to begin the turn and clearly shown on the last turn where she looses balance---twisting of the inside ski.
I have 100% enjoyed this thread, learned a lot or at least confirmed much of what I have read, skied and taught.
Reading from begining to end...I wonder if TDK6 was playing devils advocate to keep things moving?
Two very light points on teaching AWT to new students:
1) I teach lots, and lots of l2 and l3 lessons. Kids to adults...usually nights with mixed conditions from slush to ice and I mean ICE, flat ice. Riding the lift I ask most students going up the first chair....how do we stop? The students taught AWT 100% of the time say....or create to show me a bigger wedge or a wedge with higher angles. The rotary bunch says, turn up hill. I then ask, how do we turn? The rotary bunch simply show or say....to turn right, turn my right foot right...or they just show me with their skis while they think it out. Here is my point: 50% roughly,(both adults and kids) of the AWT group hit the nail on the head...push left to go right,push right to go left. Of course they use different word or show me what they are doing. The major problem comes with the second half of that group....They are honestly confused.... words like, I think I push on this one to go that way..or do I? Some wont even talk because they are confused. I think this is because skiing becomes an EQUATION...you have to think to ski. Not good.
Especially at a beginner phase...this is why I see kids heading straight down hills...I will pull up to them and ask, what happened...almost always they say...I forgot what ski to push on. Or I was pushing on my left ski, but I was not going right and then I got confused so I began the other way...and kept getting faster etc. On an Icy nite....sit back and watch the AWT students heading straight or giving up. Rotary students do very well on icy nites...less friction, sometimes I see much faster movements to parallel on these bad condition nites.
2) As noted...there is almost nothing we do naturally where we have to think...why do it skiing. walking, running, riding a bike, skateboard, or rolling over in bed...to go left, we move left.. To go right, we move right. For atheletic skiers, like the one in the video, all I generally have to say is....to go left, turn your left foot left. To go right, turn your right foot right. It works. I generally do not concentrate or worry about the opposite foot...outside foot. Of course if I have to I will. But for most folks, getting the inside foot turning the way we want to go, ( I call this the "stupid" foot) the outide or smart foot knows which way to go. You almost never have to think about it....especially if your student took some AWT classes. Those students get real happy in a 10 minute lesson, using words like....darn, that is easy. Yep they are pressuring the outside ski...as they were taught, and turning or rotating the inside ski flat on the snow...turn.
I am always willing to try new ideas....when it makes sense to do so. As such I will keep reading, but nothing in this post has convinced me to start beginners anyway than rotary.
Atheletic skiers... I took three single privates out this year...all never evers. Ages between 8 and 15. Each was carving after an hour...perfect parellel skiing. I will note we had good conditons on each day. Started with rotary...the kids owned balance. As their skis crossed the fall line they were naturally edging and would go back to a flat ski to start the next turn. All I had to do was point to my ankles and knees standing still while edging...they mirrored it and then we had real fun. But they started with rotary..when they got into trouble...the wedge did not come back, they rotated the skis back up the hill instinctively. All I did was tell them that skiing is just like riding a bike or running...want to go left? Turn your left foot left, a balanced body can do this.post #243 of 2466/10/10 at 9:31pmpost #244 of 2466/10/10 at 10:16pm
Great post I;)skiing!
Jasp, don't think he meant use rotary exclusively, simply emphasize inside leg steering to start turning!
Like the smart foot, dumb foot analogy! Get the dumb foot out of the way!post #245 of 2466/12/10 at 10:54ampost #246 of 2466/14/10 at 9:53am
Yep...JASP and Bud--- L1 to L3---once balance is up to snuff, I would focus on rotary.... Give the students something that works in all or most conditions and can be used the rest of their life. Then add more. It was my understanding of this thread our focus was on beginners.
While both legs should be doing the same thing at the same time, I opt to focus in early lessons on independent legs. To say it again, I focus on the stupid foot/leg. With my own body and learning style, I can't do two things at once until I own the one thing first...in this case, twisting the inside leg for new students. Again, the outside (smart) lets generally learns on its own, because its "natural" as I mentioned earlier. Its what we do.
I am currently learning to play the drums---to teach my 5yo. I am left handed and can strike most rythms and beats without even thinking. If I try to mirror the same with my right hand...forget it. So I need to focus first on the rythms, then the beats/min on the right; once I own it with my right hand, the left hand knows what to do. I could not teach myself to do it together. My instructor suggested the independent method. Not the perfect analogy as in skiing our strong outside leg switches from turn to turn, but I think the idea works.
Also, perhaps hidden was the fact that my AWT self/instructor taught students can progress very fast by learning to actively twist the inside leg....their outside leg surely knows what to do. Presure/Edge and twist. This focus begins teaching the blend to them.
Then, to the point of some of the arguments against AWT "in the early stage of skill development" the skier does not have to unlearn, or for-go, some of those skills to progress. Two camps 1) unlearn:There is no place for AWT. 2) for-go, there is a place: with some early students or later in ski teaching--say level 6/7/8/9, depending on student, profile and outcome desired.
I can be convinced that there is a time and place for AWT, just perhaps not this early with the student identifed in the first post. An example might be: Person who skis 2 days a year and will do so for the next 10 yrs then give up the sport. Basically they want to ski the same slopes their kids are already skiing. They want to ski well enough to have fun and only want to be in a one hour lesson--one day. They have basic skills and would benefit from more focus on the outside leg/edging. They are also afraid of their own shadow and would take years of lessons/ practice to truely commit to falling down the hill.
Edited by I:)Skiing - 6/14/10 at 10:05am
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