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Drill question

post #1 of 12
Thread Starter 
I keep teaching people to get themselves firmly over the turning/outside ski. Even up to parallel...most people I get in lessons who are paralleling havn't had a lesson in ages, or are self taught.

I think it's such a basic thing; if they can get strong over the outside ski, their control increases markedly, and so far everyone has responded well to it.

But I have 2 main drills for it, and was wondering if there are any others?!
The main one I use, especially for lower levels, is the lower yourself down and touch the outside of the turning leg one.

For upper levels (mainly), I get them to do an aeroplane, outstretched arms, and tip towards the outside leg.
Either and sometimes both are very successful, but I sometimes feel it's becoming a bit of a rut.

Any suggestions, or views on how else this can be promoted?
post #2 of 12
I'd think you'd be better off working on what you do with the feet rather than what you do with the torso to make the skis edge and turn, Ant.
post #3 of 12
What helped me was half way through the turn, lift the inside ski. This forces you to balance on teh outsie ski. it took me about 2 or 3 trys. Once I got the balance right, it was amazing how the outside ski seemed to lock itself into the snow and just carry you around the turn. It felt so solid! PowderJunkie helped me with this.

The other one is called the javelin, I think. it's the same thing, but you lift the inside ski as before but cross it over the outside ski, keeping it in the air. That one's a real pain to do... which means that's the one I need to work on!
post #4 of 12
Airplane turns are OK to try getting a feel for getting more pressure on the outside ski, but it IS a torso/upper body move, and not skiing with the feet.

And can promote some pretty weird habits.

Ever try stance and balance drills like the "flamingo turn" or the "phantom move"?

Phantom Move

Epic Phantom Move Discussion

Before doing this type of drill, mess around with traversing on easy terrain, balancing on the stance foot (without tipping). If a skier is in balance, the tip of the inside (lifted foot) will rest on the snow. If the skier is a little back, the tip will not be resting on the snow. Take care to make sure the skiers ankles are flexed, and the knee is not over flexed.

The focus is on lightening the inside foot, instead of adding weight to the stance foot. These drills are very interesting. As a PMTS cert who teaches in a PSIA based school, I get some amazing changes in peoples skiing by doing these drills, especially with levels 4/5 and up.

Folks can ski for a long time without actually being in balance. It amazes me when folks fight getting on the sweet spot, then find it and tell me "wow, I had no idea. Skiing is so much easier now".

Some skiers have a lot of difficulty doing these moves, and these drills will really show alignment issues; knock kneed or bowlegged. If it's really a problem, these issues may need to be addressed before improvements can happen.

To quote the "hardest working man in show business" (James Brown)...

Huuuua! Get on the good foot
post #5 of 12
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jyarddog:
What helped me was half way through the turn, lift the inside ski. This forces you to balance on teh outsie ski. it took me about 2 or 3 trys. Once I got the balance right, it was amazing how the outside ski seemed to lock itself into the snow and just carry you around the turn. It felt so solid! PowderJunkie helped me with this.

Since JYD made the post (Hi Bob)I want to clarify it a bit.

At the time, JYD was also a little "in the back seat". The exercise is to pickup the heal of the inside ski halfway through the turn leaving the tip of the ski on the snow. I have yet to find anyone who can do this exercise correctly while in the back seat.
post #6 of 12
I had a customer today who responded well to "pole boxes". I think this is a fairly generic term. In essence both pole tips drag on the snow creating a little trench or furrow while turning

SnoKarver, I know I can have an intelligent conversation with you about this as opposed to......some. I am good friends with a PMTS "green" who's ability to "carve" has really been fowled up by lightening her inside foot. Why not simply tip the new inside foot and use flexion/extension to balance? I am getting more and more opposed to any active weight transfer. Think of it in these terms. We're driving down I-70 and about to exit a cloverleaf. We don't shift our weight from one set of wheels to the other, it remains balanced via the auto's suspension. In addition, we don't sit in the car and shift our weight from one cheek to the other. Why lighten or even flex? Just start tipping.

Ant, I too would nix the airplane move since it teaches an "active" weight transfer. Try dragging both pole tips. It helps do a variety of things.
post #7 of 12
Ant – I would suggest you go back even a little further for a stance problem. If a skier is having problems keeping their skis underneath them they probably need to adjust how they “stand” on their skis to start with. Are they hanging on the boot cuff as opposed to bending the ankle and touching the front of the boot cuff, are there hands forward & wide to allow for a rounded back and then do they relax their shoulders? After all of this does the skier initiate their turns with the inside ski and are they active with both skis in the turn rather than parking and riding on the outside ski. You can see how active they are with both skis by a major reduction in what most skiers believe is normal tip lead. Today’s skiing/skis require minimal counter as opposed to how we use to ski and therefore a minimal tip lead.

post #8 of 12
Rusty Guy, I don't know why these things would "foul up" a skiers ability to carve. Unless there is something else going on, such as a stance/alignment problem? :

Sometimes when I work with students who have special problems with balance, these excersizes are hard to do correctly. I'm wondering what she looks like doing one footed traverses? Depending on HOW she is balancing on these traverses. There has got to be more to this. Hmmmm.

Technique CAN make up for lateral and fore/aft alignment problems, but it's not very easy to do. I skied for years without getting aligned properly, but after I got it done... WOW!

I usually intermix the one footed "phantom" drills with railroad tracks (just one big arc uphill for lower levels) on easy terrain. But it's still focused with little toe edge and LIGHT on the inside foot, pulling the free foot in close to the stance foot. With success there, I'll start introducing pulling the free foot back.

Have certainly seen skiers who have misinterpreted the exercises, and then continued with these misinterpretations to the point of developing bad movement patterns. Which is true of any exercise or drill. For instance a skier who is picking up the inside foot and slapping the boots together and "swishing" or pushing the heels in a displacement movement is NOT doing the phantom move correctly.

I think I met this woman once, last spring at the Basin? But unfortunately, we did not get a chance to ski. Boy, would I like to see what's going on. You've got my curiosity and interest. Personally, the PMTS training I've had improved my skiing quite a bit. And I've had great results with students by focusing on the balance issues than I used to.
post #9 of 12
Yes you met her. I'm intrigued as well so we need to get the three of us together. She lightens to the point of merely smearing her inside foot. In addition a good deal of rotary motion is applied to the inside foot. As stated, the tails of her skis nearly click together and the tips diverge. Her stance looks at times like her knee is broken. Obviously this is not the fault of PMTS. I will say in all fairness it has to be considered that her "training" has brought her to this point.
post #10 of 12
The beauty of PMTS(did I say that?)is starting from the begining with tip down balanced on one leg. It not only solves the outside ski problem but the "backseat" issue.(never was an issue before highback boots)
post #11 of 12
Thread Starter 
Some good ideas here. However, I use these drills mainly for new skiiers, who are basically NOT on their turning ski, they are usually leaning up the hill. I have a notion that if you can teach people to feel how powerful their turns become through being over the turning leg, then teaching everything else becomes much easier as they become confident that they can actually *turn*. Teaching fancy things to someone who is scared every time they tip their skis down the fall line is tough!
I seem to get a lot of these types, men, women and kids.
I find aeroplanes is great for people who aren't happy lowering down towards their skis, female dancers particularly.
Some of the thumper exercises etc are a good idea, I'll certainly try them with the upper level types.
post #12 of 12
I guess I would suggest if they are scared they are over terrained.

Why teach anyone to do anything with their upper bodies when in fact the movement should be occuring doen below?

I heard Jennifer Metz (PSIA-RM Examiner)suggest that flexion/extension is done to balance us on our skis. Abandon active weight transfer and let it happen as a RESULT of turning.
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