Who still makes their skis in their country of origin?

Stockli, for one.  And there are 100's more.  See: http://www.exoticskis.com/exoticskis/ .

It doesn't matter where a ski is manufactured any more since the components of the ski come from many countries.  The wood or foam or glass for the cores, titinal or fiberglass, bases, edges, etc. come from all over the globe.  What matters is the QC, time in the press while the glue cures, quality of the materials used, etc.

Also, some manufactures make some of their own skis in their country where the HQ is domiciled, and sub out other models (usually lower end cap skis, junior skis, etc.). 

Some of the "French" skis you mentioned are now HQed now in Park City.  My Hestra gloves may survive a Swedish winter, but they are made in China.  It is all about quality, not where it is made.
Edited by quant2325 - 5/5/10 at 8:25pm

I believe the majority of Volkls are still made in Germany. I knowt they took production to China on some models, but have since brought it back to Germany on the higher end.

Atomic are all made in Austria.

 

The whole point of the Chinese production is to lower manufacturing costs, but the public have yet to see the savings. If it costs 1/2 as much (or less) to produce the product, shouldn't the retail price be 1/2 as much (or less) to a comparable product made in Europe or North America?

Are there any quality rides coming from the Southern Hemisphere? 

 

Don't remember seeing any.

Some good rides from New Zealand.

 

http://www.kingswoodskis.com/home/

4FRNT is made in Slovenia.

 

Bryan

These things are much more complicated then it looks. Sure Atomics are made in Austria, just as Elans are made in Slovenia... or at least it says so on ski. In reality all things are mixed, and competing companies are competing only on outside, on inside they cooperate really good, so it's perfectly normal that skis from one company are made in factories of competitive company, and some other model of second company is made in factory of first company. It sounds impossible BMW cars would be made in Audi factory or vice versa, but with skis, this is exactly what is happening.

I've heard that Elan have one of the biggest ski manuf facilities and make skis for all sorts of different companies. No idea if this is true though.

Hahahahahahaha..... in a perfect world, sure! In real life? Bigger dividends for shareholders is all anybody cares about - assuming the company is profitable in the first place. They'll price the product as high as they can without killing off sales.

Sad but true.

I don't know current numbers, but to be honest, I doubt this would be true. I haven't been inside of Elan factory for 20 years or even more, even though I'm living just 20km away. But from outside, it didn't get any bigger in this time.

Back in my World Cup days, I have been to few factories (mostly race department, but you still get a short look to "normal" production from time to time) and I would say Elan wasn't anything so special or so big compared to others. I know things could change in last 10 years since I'm out of this business, but I doubt they would get so much bigger just on inside (as mentioned, on outside, factory is same size as it was before). And knowing their constant financial problems in last 10-15 years, I doubt this would happen. But once again, I have no real numbers nowadays, so it can also be true.

Not really furthering this much, but I do know that Nordica's Italian ski production facility is the old Kaestle factory, which Nordica bought and moved lock, stock and barrel over the border.

I think VIST skis are actually made in Italy, as of course are Blossom, though I believe most of Blossom's sales are to other manufacturers (I've heard Hart, for one).

On a related topic, looks to me like Atomic now badges Salomon bindings as their own. Have they stopped making bindings in Austria (ex-Ess)?

What is sad about that?  Shouldn't a company make as much profit as the consumer is willing to pay?  Shouldn't the consumer have to pay for innovation and quality?  If not, who should? The government?  And if the product sucks, shouldn't the company suffer?

What's "sad but true" about Economics 101?
 

Prickly,

 

Blossom sales are indeed mostly to others, and I think they have the old Persenico factory.  In high school I raced on orange Spalding Siderals (Persenico).  Hey, a press is a press.  All you need to do is glue everything together, press it in a mold, leave it there long enough, do some finishing work and a ski is made. 

 

Now, it I could find a huge stamping machine, and could find someone selling me quality wood and glass wrapped foam cores for cheap, I could modify the 333skis model (not much of a business model now, IMO) by selling quality "custom" skis right on any Main Street.  Customers could walk in and design their own top/graphics on a laptop or pick wood veneers, pick their ski shape de jour, watch the titinal or aluminum or glass layers and tops and bottoms get stamped/cut, pick the edge and sidewall material they want, layer it all together around a quality core, stick it in the adjustable racing ski or rocker-tip or all-mountain  (or whatever) press/mold, come back after the finishing and custom base grind is done, and have a great ski for a reasonable price made in the USA.  Hell, I always wanted a rojo copper veneer  with patina look on the top of my skis.  If I only owned my own "factory" ...

 

Edited by quant2325 - 5/20/10 at 11:57am

Actually, the Spalding factory is no more, I think it burned down. Blossom is nearby, but not on the original Spalding site.

Kneissl skis are still handmade in Austria (with two exceptions that are manufactured for Kneissl by Elan).

 

Mike

They still haven't been able to get that star right, though.

Just a short inquiring minds hi jack. 

 

Is there a noticeable retail price difference for skis in Europe in their country of origin?  Where duties and freight are not a cost factor, do they cost any less?

 

I will leave and go sit in the corner with my coloring book now.

 

LOL! Well I'm a socialist so I couldn't possibly understand.... ;)

 

Yes, consumers should pay for quality and innovation. Would be nice if they got what they paid for.

 

What has the goverment got to do with anything? Don't be ridiculous.

 

Yes, a company that cannot deliver doesn't deserve to survive.

 

But I never said anything about any of those things, did I? What I was suggesting was that instead of halving the retail price of skis by moving to China, any increase in profit margins would be more likely to be sucked up greedily by corporate owners and shareholders. Assuming the company was actually profitable before the move....

 

 

Wish people understood the implications of this. Isn't just skis, obviously. Do people think that the steel that goes into U.S. auto parts is all from U.S. mills? Or that our timber all comes from our tree farms, or the nylon for "made in USA" clothes or the rubber for that gasket you bought at the hardware store is all synthesized from scratch here? Even our vaunted local indie ski makers end up using plenty of materials not made in the U.S., if not in the cores or glass, then in the presses and lubricants for those presses, or epoxies, or dyes for the graphics, or inside their Macs that run the CAD and graphics programs. Hell, odds are they sign their orders with pens and inks made overseas. Seriously, can anyone here prove that any ski made is made ENTIRELY, from start to finish, from manufacturing through support, with materials that truly originated in the country of origin?

 

For better or worse, the entire "made in..." thing is an exercise in mythologized nostalgia. With a major political spin. Kinda like visiting Main Street in Disneyland. We are a global economy, and we can't recreate 1930. We should worry more about how much the suits that run a corporation are willing to put into quality control, than where the bits of the product are created, or assembled, or put into boxes...

IMO what matters is the loss of jobs and the trade deficit. After 30 years of shipping jobs overseas, the US is debtor nation and guess who owns most of the debt?

 

Hint: K2 skis are made there.

 

 

 

Going back a bit further for country of origin, is Head now considered to be manufactured offshore?

 

 

When Head moved to Europe didn't they cease being an American ski brand? 

Hart the same thing?

Head has been 100% euro, with no connection to the U.S. except the name, since the late 80's. It is Head NV, technically, and now resides in the Netherlands. Skis are still made in Austria mostly. Hart also has no legal, financial, construction, or design connection to the U.S. except the old name. More relevant question is, are any of Jarden's "U.S." ski company products (K2's and Line's) still built in the U.S.? Don't think so.

 

In theory there is no "loss of jobs" over the long run.  We lose manufacturing jobs to countries that can produce widgets for far less than us, but then  we import the goods at a fraction of what they would cost if produced here.  We win because the consumer spends less and we don't "import inflation."   Or new companies start here that employ our citizens and manufacture overseas.   In theory, there is also a shift to working in services after workers are trained.  As the third-world becomes rich, they will need the things we take for granted.  This means some USA firms will benefits enormously.

 

The problem now isn't just the debt, it is the interest on the interest to maintain it and it is spiraling out of control.  The good news is that everyone in congress is aware of this (they aren't that stupid).  The question for investors is whether we inflate or deflate out of the problem.  I go with inflation since a generalized deflation on top of our deflated real estate prices will kill us for another decade on top of the decade we need to get out of this mess.

 

The solution is simple.  First, Bernanke does what he can to keep asset prices from collapsing.  Next, congress extends out the age to receive maximum Social Security benefits.  Then they do the unthinkable and overhaul the tax system (the KC Fed did the work for this a few decades ago).  Expect a value-added tax to be added on top of the income tax, which will largely be phased out.  The VAT will exempt food, medicine and basic clothing to make the Democrats happy, and will be instituted only after the marginal tax rates for the rich decline making the Republican happy.  It will pick up billions from the "underground economy" which, in theory, doesn't pay taxes now because they are off the radar.  Volker already "leaked" this out by mistake, or at least that is what the press said.  Expect more leaks to sensitize the American people that this is coming.

 

What does this mean for skiers?  Not much since the average skier who lives outside a ski area makes a damn good living and can afford the habit.  And those that live in  ski towns will still get discounted annual lift passes so they can afford to ski.  This economy bites for the ski area owners, though.  Luxury real estate sales (the only way ski areas make money) will suck wind for perhaps a decade or more.  Lessons,  retail (rents) and business travel (conventions) will never go back to the levels of four years ago because the wealth loss in The Great Recession isn't coming fully back anytime soon.

 

Is it bad if a US manufacturer has a factory in China?  Hell no.  The quality should be the same assuming the workers are fairly sober when they put the skis together.  In fact, we'll be buying Chinese cars within a few year in the USA.  At first a lot of people predicted Japanese cars wouldn't make it here (too small), Korean cars would be viewed as s____boxes, German cars would be too expensive, etc.  But the naysayers were wrong because we aren't the only country in the world that can put out a quality product.
 

 

I vehemently disagree with the bulk of your post. Since this is not a political or economic forum i will not go into extreme detail in my response, except to say that your premise is wrong: US manufacturing jobs lost to overseas will NOT have a comparable job left in the USA. A job, maybe. A job with benefits, reasonable security and living wage. Not a chance.  And frankly, with respect to larger companies,  wall street's position whether they say it or not, is to make sure companies do not replace those jobs, because the shedding and transfer translates to better shorter term profits.  

 

Your statement that this means nothing to the skier is also BS. As a consumer, you have the ability to support companies that you like or have labor standards that you like.  You can make a statement with your wallet.  You can choose what brand you want to buy.

 

Frankly your post smacks of some of the poor thinking that bubbles up and down in the ski industry from time to time.  Not always for the better i might add.  See above your reference to "luxury"  real estate. 

 

I dont believe the sport of skiing is wholly dependent of real estate sales and in particular luxury real estate sales.  While these sales may slant to the benefit of the owners, they should not make or break the ski industry. If it does, then it really would be a sad day for the sport.

Edited by kbuzz - 5/17/10 at 5:25pm

There are a lot of industries, not just the ski industry, where a factory also builds their competitor's products for a contracted price that is cheaper than the original company can build it themselves so both companies benefit.

 

I know Elan builds most other ski company's cheap skis in the Elan factory. This is because Slovinia is a poor country so the Elan factory has lower overhead than other European factories.

Hmmmm...all 3 ski areas I frequent have absolutely no condo's to speak off. In fact only one has a hotel. And they stay open longer than most mega resorts. Kinda shoots a big hole in your theory how real estate is the only way ski areas make money.