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LA aero training...

post #1 of 11
Thread Starter 

An example of Allen Lim’s [low tech aero science] applied to LA’s training?  Would John Cobb [Aero Video]

approve?





*edit -Cobb aero video added


Edited by DonDenver - 5/5/10 at 5:56am
post #2 of 11
Thread Starter 

So with a little more work I did confirm the video above is an example of what Allen Lim is applying for Lance as well as the entire RadShk team.  It’s another way of finding how air is moving about you highlighting where you can become more efficient.  With this simple approach of applying string at various points then examine body position with respect to clean air on an open road I would have to guess that Mr. Wind Tunnel [John Cobb] might approve.

You’ll find in this next video [in the second half] how the Lim "strings" are analyzed by a third party and contrasted year over year with body position and a change in bike geo for this year.  An advantage.

 

I share all this since you, like me, happen to be pushing a bunch of air [near 8 lbs per sq inch for my size] on a bike with std road bars.  While I don’t ride TT or have been in Cobb’s wind tunnel, I do consider overall bike fit, position, head/helmet angle along with road shoe covers of special interest all with aerodynamics in mind. 

Like skiing where I’ve been working on using less brute force to overpower the mountain…I’d like to become more efficient on the saddle to save energy.  So wherever my conditioning program takes me physically…additional aero advantages to ride longer and stronger is another effective tactic.

And no songfta, I’m not buying a speed suit for NASTAR gates…now that’s just crazy talk

post #3 of 11
 get bike go ride it. That video well cool shows me why roadies THINK way to much about things. 
post #4 of 11
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post

 get bike go ride it. That video well cool shows me why roadies THINK way to much about things. 


No.  Rather why certain mtb'rs work too hard THINKING way too little

post #5 of 11
Bush, that's not a 'roadie', that's lance Armstrong. Homie gets PAID to win big races, he's not "thinking too much", he's earning his paycheck.
post #6 of 11
And if you don't think differences in drag don't make the difference between who wins and who's at the back of the peloton, you are incredibly mistaken.  Innovation in drag reduction put Greg LeMond on the podium in the first TDF won by an American as a result of his using aerobars.  Cancellara is the man to beat in most any time trial because of his incredible flexibility which allows him to be much more aero than just about anyone else and his power output.  It's also why there virtually is no other roadie who can beat me down a hill or on most flats, although I'm easily beat on uphills.  Still need to work on that power to weight ratio thing.

Mike
post #7 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom View Post

Bush, that's not a 'roadie', that's lance Armstrong. Homie gets PAID to win big races, he's not "thinking too much", he's earning his paycheck.

 

I was more saying that riders up to even Cat one who think this is going to matter...its probably not.
post #8 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by habacomike View Post

And if you don't think differences in drag don't make the difference between who wins and who's at the back of the peloton, you are incredibly mistaken.  Innovation in drag reduction put Greg LeMond on the podium in the first TDF won by an American as a result of his using aerobars.  Cancellara is the man to beat in most any time trial because of his incredible flexibility which allows him to be much more aero than just about anyone else and his power output.  It's also why there virtually is no other roadie who can beat me down a hill or on most flats, although I'm easily beat on uphills.  Still need to work on that power to weight ratio thing.

Mike

I am willing to bet that Cancellara success it more due to outright power than power to drag. Power to weight doesnt matter that much in a usually flatter time trail. Although I am sure he is REALLY flexible letting him be more aero, but his threshold power has to be GREAT than almost any other TDF cyclist.
post #9 of 11
absolutely.  But many pro cyclists have great power at threshold.  The movements in finishes in the stage races often have been due, in part,  to improving position on the bike (e.g. reducing drag).  Cancellara purportedly is so flexible he can almost put his elbows on the ground.  It's a big difference to many of the other riders.
post #10 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by habacomike View Post

absolutely.  But many pro cyclists have great power at threshold.  The movements in finishes in the stage races often have been due, in part,  to improving position on the bike (e.g. reducing drag).  Cancellara purportedly is so flexible he can almost put his elbows on the ground.  It's a big difference to many of the other riders.


 

I heard palm the ground, which isnt that hard.....well its hard I am sure the General Public cant palm the ground but elbow would be crazy...
post #11 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonDenver View Post

Like skiing where I’ve been working on using less brute force to overpower the mountain…I’d like to become more efficient on the saddle to save energy.  So wherever my conditioning program takes me physically…additional aero advantages to ride longer and stronger is another effective tactic.


And no songfta, I’m not buying a speed suit for NASTAR gates…now that’s just crazy talk


"Treat the snow like you would your lover's face." - Olle Larsson

The same basic principal applies to cycling, whether on or off road: be efficient and you'll be more effective.  Granted, aerodynamics are one of the last things to work on in terms of improving one's road cycling.  Work on flexibility and core strength, effective power input (pedal stroke efficiency plus ideal cadence for your build), get lean, lighten your bike in practical ways (e.g. lighter wheels trump lighter frame) and then work on aerodynamics. 

Going aero without having the right base of strength, flexibility and technique is a "two steps back" approach.  I've seen so many triathletes invest in thousands of dollars' worth of aero stuff - the TT bike, the helmet, the shoe covers, etc. - yet have such terrible pedal stroke, a slower-than-slow cadence, inadequate flexibility (that shows in terms of rocking hips while pedaling and a non-rounded back) and dangerously sketching handling skills while in the full tuck.  I sometimes see these people on my club rides and wonder if they're getting any coaching or guidance, as they're doing more harm than good with such an approach.  Furthermore, they can be downright dangerous in group ride situations.  If they show up to one of my rides, I ask them to either ride in the bullhorns if they want to join our paceline, or to steer clear if they're hell bent on staying aero.  I've seen more than one paceline fall apart due to a person who shouldn't be riding aerobars, and at least one terrible crash from such an interaction.  Better safe than sorry. 

Fortunately, Don, I know you've done a lot of work on the core aspects of things, so aero efficiency is a logical next step.

Regarding the speed suit at the race camp: you only live once - do it!
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