New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Some off trail MA - Page 2

post #31 of 52
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdk6 View Post

BWPA skiing in all the clips is very typical for how many young skiers ski today. Maybe its the skis, maybe its the way they learned or maybe its a combination of both. There is a very pronounced up-move and as BTS pointed out there is traces of it in the mogul clip as well. There is a very aggressive leg retraction move that kind of gives away that its forced. Its not natural to me anyway. In the powder clips you are very much in the back seat and you keep the ski tips over the snow most of the time. Since your skis support you for/aft balance well and you dont sink much because of the width this is possible. But it also takes away your natural ability to work 3dimensional in the snow and nicely turn your skis in the snow. With no or little side cut and snow not firm enough to decamber and let you arc your skis in the turn you are struggling with making your turns. This is why you need to up-unweight. Not necessarily a fault but it is what it is. Here, I made you some frame captures:

 

BWPA001.jpg

This is right after skier made his up-extention move. He turned his skis as they were unweighted and soon he will sink down with skis in the fall line. He is far back and he is square to his skis. This helps him keep his ski tips up over the snow and his hips rotating in order to fuel the pivot. He is extended.

 

BWPA002.jpg

Here the skier is comming through apex approximatly. Note his square stance and back seat with the ski tips up over the snow. He is flexing. BTW, are those new Scott "retro" poles?

 

When I look at the second video I dont see that strong high level skiing. First skier tries to select a line through the trees and down over some rocks or something but the flow and speed is badly interupted and it comes off as kind of experimental extreme skiing at low level. Maybe the snowconditions at the end suck but so does the skiing. At the top it was very aggressive up-unweighting and at the end it was badly in the back seat skiing. The next guy is clearly the weekest one out of the 3 but if he is ony 12y old its ok. He is a good example of how "tip to turn" with carving skis is nonfunctional in deeper and difficlut snow off pist. The last guy does not stand out as much better to me. I fail to see what BTS is raving about. Same stuff as #2. Maybe just his older brother. At the top he jumps his turns fearly nicely but at the end he arcs them badly in the back seat. Sofar non of the feedback given in this thread has brought any new stuff to OP. Insted of us shooting blanks, give us some of your own MA.


My own MA has been done. I am looking for others opinion. TDK6 well you started of strong earlier in the thread. post like this are what takes threads like this down spiral of no return. 

 

 

yep many young skier today? you ve done yopu best to alienate EVERY single one of them with that post. Noone wants to learn to ski at 10mph with the tips driven into the snow in powder anymore. IN the real powder days(IE the clip you reference)  that would have been impossible anyways. Ever trying skiing bottomless snow while you try to find the bottom on rally short skinny ski while there is NO light. GOod luck with that, Id love to see it.

 

 

when did aft balance become such a bad thing? I do agree I am balanced aft in relation to the hill, but did you ever stop to think that in powder you not balanced with the hills but instead on the platform your skis are creating. My legs NEVER get tired from skiing, from hiking to ski yes, but form just skiing no. ON some of these clips posted I easily skied 50,000 vertical feet in a day with out touching a groomer. IF I was backseat Id imagine my legs would get tired. I am not some world class athlete that can squat my weight all day, I am mearly an above average Joe.  I doubt I or any could ski aft balance for 8 hours straight over 50k of vertical.

 

since you keep picking on the skis because in your mind new skis are evil and let people get away with evil things, all I have to say is easier is great. I have no idea how those turns are 'struggling" to make turns. First sidecut doesnt meaning anything when there is no hard surface to use on, the skis are already decambered since they have rocker and having a bigger platform let them decamber more. I dont think they take away the natural ability to anything if anything they enhance it. IF you cant understand please dont post in this thread.

 

 

and FYI Id love to see yo run gates against the kids your blasting. or anyone your blasting. Weird after your first post you were starting to gain some respect, after this one you have lost it all. 

post #32 of 52

I don't think he really wants your help tdk; he doesn't seem very grateful anyway.  I would understand if I were critisizing him, being a ghost and all with no video, but I've seen video of you in powder, and you don't need any lessons from Bush. 

post #33 of 52
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post

I don't think he really wants your help tdk; he doesn't seem very grateful anyway.  I would understand if I were critisizing him, being a ghost and all with no video, but I've seen video of you in powder, and you don't need any lessons from Bush. 


dude I usually thank people and sometimes PM them. TDK6 grrrrr 

 

BTS at least is way produtive and makes good points and doesnt just try to slam me...

post #34 of 52

JM- I don't think TDK is trying to "slam" you...  You have put yourself (your vid) out for opinions about your skiing... accept them and grow a thicker skin... You profess to have dreams of the D-Team... you have a long way to go to get there, my friend... and I am speaking from having been selected to several Nat Tryouts... You are going to need to take critique better than this. Remember that TDK is not a native English speaker, so his choice of words may not necessarily suit your expectations.

 

Making the D-Team, if thats your goal, is not about flashy skiing- its about discipline, fundamentals, and the ability to express them both actively and verbally. D-Teamers have to be able to respect EVERYBODY's opinion, regardless whether it matches their own or not! And there are a lot of older, very experienced skiers/ instrs/coaches out on the hill who often have more experience than the D-Teamers themselves. So do not dismiss someone just because they say something you don't care to hear. You may find out that they are more accurate than you orginally thought!

 

If I were to suggest something in your skiing (from what I saw when we skied together, not from these vids) is that your skiing has potential, but as yet it is undeveloped. More focus on basics, on the fundamentals, is what would serve you the best right now. Then you can manage any task, situation, or terrain without it causing totally different movement patterns, but rather adjusting what is necessary.

 

As far as his comments about 'young skiers', - well, I'm going to agree with him! Most of the young "up and coming" skiers I come across these days do NOT have the basics as solid as they should, but are all about "steeze"... all flash, fashion and personal style, vs. real solid fundamentals. Sorry, but "steeze" isn't going to get you a spot on your Divisional Selection, much less the National Team!

 

Go out with Razor, and watch him ski... There is a reason he was selected to the team so many times, and was also coach for so long... And it ain't about "steeze"!

post #35 of 52
Thread Starter 

so I was trying to be 'steezy" yep:)

 

well the jacket was picked to come out in photos, but ya really? My last goal when skiing is to look like a park rat which I am not even close to.

post #36 of 52

Strongly ingrained up move. Check.

 

Aggressive leg retraction. Check.  I personally like aggressive leg retraction turns, and do exaggerate the retraction on purpose at times, but only at times; there is a fine line.  I will say it's nice to see, as most folk with the ingrained up move are missing retraction turns from their repertoire.

 

Many young skiers ski this way. Check.  Because they can.  Your strength is your weakness; when you can ski by throwing your weight around and power your skis around you are less likely to develop the finesse required to suggest to the ski that it turn with subtle movements and then let the ski turn you, shaping the ski that shapes the turn that shapes the ski. 

 

"Maybe it's the skis, maybe it's the way they learned..."  Check.  Not only do young folk have the strength and athletic ability to ski that way with no perceived problems, the skis make it even easier to ski that way.

 

A bit too much rear weight bias in powder. Check.  Maybe you deliberately did this so as not to snag on whatever might be hiding under that surface.  Skis work just fine in deep 3-D snow; you don't have to 'find bottom" for the ski to work, and you don't need to stay on top of all the snow either.

 

"snow not firm enough to decamber your skis".  I can't say, but it's certainly possible.  God knows I've spent plenty of time skiing in snow too soft to bend my skis, and when that happens you gotta do what you gotta do.  Side cut helps decamber a ski in deep snow by giving the tip and tail more surface area relative to the mid section of a ski.

 

"He is a good example of how "tip to turn" with carving skis is nonfunctional in deeper and difficult snow off piste."  The simple "tip and  rip" turn always worked for me in deep off-piste snow with 220 Dynastar "carving skis", so long as I didn't try to tip them too much while skiing too slowly .  (OK, I admit, a little skill in timing rising and sinking rhythm helped with decambering at ski-instructor speeds)

 

 

 

You have good advice from TDK6, VSP and BTS.  You could swallow your pride and learn something.

 

 

 

 

post #37 of 52

Bush,

 

    

 

Quote:

Aggressive leg retraction. Check.  I personally like aggressive leg retraction turns, and do exaggerate the retraction on purpose at times, but only at times; there is a fine line.  I will say it's nice to see, as most folk with the ingrained up move are missing retraction turns from their repertoire.

 

Many young skiers ski this way. Check.  Because they can.  Your strength is your weakness; when you can ski by throwing your weight around and power your skis around you are less likely to develop the finesse required to suggest to the ski that it turn with subtle movements and then let the ski turn you, shaping the ski that shapes the turn that shapes the ski.

 

     As I recall these were a couple things that were pointed out to you at your level 3 at Snowbird. Especially the reliance on your strength instead of your technique to turn your skis.  Your response has also been the same in both accounts, being defensive and not listening to what people are trying to tell you.  

     What I see is strong, aggressive, "athletic" skiing.  You make gross movements rather than refined movements.  Your steer through upper body rotation and are aft through the whole turn, never re-centering in the transitions. In regards to the platform you are only using it from the toe-piece back and not engaging the tip at all.  

     As for never getting tired=being balanced that statement is entirely untrue!  Your are relying on your strength and have skied that way long enough that you have built up the muscles to not get tired.  I know many skiers that are very aft balanced but do it every day and never tire because they are used to it.

     Finally, I watched many very "athletic" skier not make it past the first cut at the last team tryouts because that's all they were, they relied on there strength not their technique to ski the way they do.  If your ultimate goal is the team then you need to start taking peoples feedback more constructively and less defensively.  The best advice I ever received from a clinicianer was "to make the team you need to be able to ski not how you think you should but how every one else thinks you should."  To me that meant letting go of my pride and doing whatever people told me to even if i didn't agree with them.  This way of thinking has allowed me to become a much more technically diverse skier.  Which in turn allowed me to go to team tryouts.  

     You are a talented, motivated skier but you need to start to be less defensive and more honest about your own skiing if you are to achieve the goals you have. 

post #38 of 52

Thanks guys for backing me up. Yes, Bush is getting a bit defensive but its only understandable. Im an old timer and ski on skinny skis. Much of what I do is nothing Bush puts any value on. However, putting up video for MA is kind of like an invitation to conversation. Lots of spot on constructive feedback in this thread. Not much critisism.

 

Like Loki said, claiming your weight is not back because you are not tired at the end of the day is making the wrong conclusion. I think the videos and my frame captures speak for themselves. You are not getting away this easy here and sertainly not at the tryouts. But there is a reason you are back. And what might that reason be? And are there any better alternatives? These are questions you should be trying to figure out and find answeres to. If you are not open to any suggestions and stubbornly think you have it all figured out then you will not learn anything new. Your reply to my comment that you are rotating your hip out turning left (I think it was left) but not turning right was that you are actually trying to rotate your hip out turning right. In other words the complete opposite of what I said. Made me look a bit stupid. Thanks. But people on this bord are smarter than that. They do not buy it. The kids you are skiing with might do it though. BTW, how good are the kids on a race course? What age and level are they?

post #39 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdk6 View Post

Your reply to my comment that you are rotating your hip out turning left (I think it was left) but not turning right was that you are actually trying to rotate your hip out turning right. In other words the complete opposite of what I said. Made me look a bit stupid. Thanks. But people on this bord are smarter than that. They do not buy it.


I don't know about left or right, but this assymetry actually is something Bush was working on this year. It was pointed out to him by a D-Team member back in March. He didn't invent it to make you look stupid.

post #40 of 52

Maybe you are right. I just did not understand why he strived to more hip rotation insted of the opposite. Thats all. Its been pointed out by others here as well. Looking at trax and all. But Im pritty stoked that I nailed a d-team member feedback. Actually Im not

post #41 of 52
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdk6 View Post

Maybe you are right. I just did not understand why he strived to more hip rotation insted of the opposite. Thats all. Its been pointed out by others here as well. Looking at trax and all. But Im pritty stoked that I nailed a d-team member feedback. Actually Im not


I want to able to be 100 percent square to my skis when I want it and need it, and I want to be 100 percent square to the falline when I want it and need it.

 

IMO both have huge advanaages in different aress of the hill.  What your failing to understanding is sometime doing something the 'wrong" way might actually be better than the the 'right" way. 

post #42 of 52

Bush,

 

     Would you please explain the advantages you feel you get in both situations? Also the disadvantages?

post #43 of 52
Thread Starter 

square to the skis = stronger more powerful position in harder to ski snow in longer turns also let you be more two footed which works quite well on modern skis in conditions that are 'tricky". When you square to the skis you are not turning your body first you instead are just letting it follow. 

 

Square to the hill is quicker and easier to get down tighter spots. Very much Key in moguls, tree skiing and SL turns sizes on groomers. Let you be stronger on your outside ski.

post #44 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post

square to the skis = stronger more powerful position in harder to ski snow in longer turns also let you be more two footed which works quite well on modern skis in conditions that are 'tricky". When you square to the skis you are not turning your body first you instead are just letting it follow. 

 

Square to the hill is quicker and easier to get down tighter spots. Very much Key in moguls, tree skiing and SL turns sizes on groomers. Let you be stronger on your outside ski.



Do I even want to get into this? I will not argue that in shorter turns more counter is a good thing. But being "square to the skis" , where it might give a slight amount of additional strength, reduces the ability to functionally manipulate the edge and limits the amount of leg rotation beyond the limited benefit of increased strength. "Squarer" perhaps, but never "square"! Study your physiology/ biomechanics to further understand what I'm referring to.

post #45 of 52

Ric - I've heard more tan one description of what "square" actually is. In one, square means pointing the same direction as the skis. In the other, you take into account tip lead and have the hips parallel to a line across the tips. If you take definition 2 to be "square", would you take the never out of this statement "Squarer" perhaps, but never "square"!"?

post #46 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post

square to the skis = stronger more powerful position in harder to ski snow in longer turns also let you be more two footed which works quite well on modern skis in conditions that are 'tricky". When you square to the skis you are not turning your body first you instead are just letting it follow.

 

Square to the hill is quicker and easier to get down tighter spots. Very much Key in moguls, tree skiing and SL turns sizes on groomers. Let you be stronger on your outside ski.


Wrong (highlited in blue). The whole point with upper body counter is that you can let your upper body remain fearly stationary with as little "turning" as needed or desired. Your skis are turning underneath you and your upper body stays put. If you let your upper body stay square to your skis then you let your upper body turn with your skis. When you are in this mode then you are very close to letting your upper body "drive" the turn. The advantage of staying square is that your hips will rotate outwards and turning will be easier beause you are cheating or loosing tracktion if that is what you want. If the snow is heavy or you have little speed or you need to be ahead of the game you can actively rotate your hips outwards to gain momentum but usually this is what we try to minimize at advanced level.

 

I dont understand why you need to stay "square to the hill" in trees? When I ski trees its the same as skiing without trees only I try not to run into any. I fail to see the connection. I also think that staying square to the hill is very important in powder. That is if you are linking turns. If you are just cruising looking for speed and a radical line then you need to square up to the skis as you will need hip rotation to fuel your turn.

post #47 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post




I want to able to be 100 percent square to my skis when I want it and need it, and I want to be 100 percent square to the falline when I want it and need it.

 

IMO both have huge advanaages in different aress of the hill.  What your failing to understanding is sometime doing something the 'wrong" way might actually be better than the the 'right" way. 


So what you are trying to say is that its ok to do wrong stuff? The reason you say that is that you need to do wrong stuff to overcome difficulties in your skiing. Very common at lower level. Insted you should try to do the right stuff.

post #48 of 52
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdk6 View Post




Wrong (highlited in blue). The whole point with upper body counter is that you can let your upper body remain fearly stationary with as little "turning" as needed or desired. Your skis are turning underneath you and your upper body stays put. If you let your upper body stay square to your skis then you let your upper body turn with your skis. When you are in this mode then you are very close to letting your upper body "drive" the turn. The advantage of staying square is that your hips will rotate outwards and turning will be easier beause you are cheating or loosing tracktion if that is what you want. If the snow is heavy or you have little speed or you need to be ahead of the game you can actively rotate your hips outwards to gain momentum but usually this is what we try to minimize at advanced level.

 

I dont understand why you need to stay "square to the hill" in trees? When I ski trees its the same as skiing without trees only I try not to run into any. I fail to see the connection. I also think that staying square to the hill is very important in powder. That is if you are linking turns. If you are just cruising looking for speed and a radical line then you need to square up to the skis as you will need hip rotation to fuel your turn.


TDK6 Id love to ski with ya when coming to america? 

post #49 of 52

I heard a skier once say,"For every imbalanced movement the body makes, another movement is made to try and balance itself." Making all the right balanced movements creates an efficient skier.

post #50 of 52

Hmmm... a little Dunning-Kruger effect going on here?

post #51 of 52


Quote:

Originally Posted by vail snopro View Post

Hmmm... a little Dunning-Kruger effect going on here?

 

Dunning–Kruger effect

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 
Jump to: navigation, search

The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which "people reach erroneous conclusions and make unfortunate choices but their incompetence robs them of the metacognitive ability to realize it."[1] The unskilled therefore suffer from illusory superiority, rating their own ability as above average, much higher than in actuality; by contrast, the highly skilled underrate their abilities, suffering from illusory inferiority. This leads to a perverse result where less competent people will rate their own ability higher than more competent people. It also explains why actual competence may weaken self-confidence because competent individuals falsely assume that others have an equivalent understanding. "Thus, the miscalibration of the incompetent stems from an error about the self, whereas the miscalibration of the highly competent stems from an error about others."[1]

The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity.
 

 

In the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.
 
post #52 of 52

Not a PSIA pro., but I have skied with many of the best off-piste and extreme skiers, and done some heli-ski guiding. So my observations are not strictured by pure PSIA movement expectations.

 

Bush....you're kidding, right? 

 

The skiing showed no flow, you seem to lack any kind of snow-feel. I would be very hesitant to take you to any gnarly runs.

 

Maybe, you need some strength work, you are definitely lacking any kind of dynamism.

 

Are you really a full-cert.?? If so, that is distressing!

 

Suggest you back off, get some on slope training. Some very basic training. Learn how to shape your turns, keep your hands leading, learn how to blend the basic skills.

 

You seem to be skiing beyond your skill level.

 

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Ski Instruction & Coaching