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Pure Powder Ski

post #1 of 22
Thread Starter 
I am 6’ 4”, 220 lbs, have been skiing a long time, and have become pretty good doing so.
 
 Looking for a “pure” powder/uncut/or marginally cut snow ski at the top (wide) end of a 5 ski quiver. Currently have the older, non-rockered Gotama at the top of the quiver and have become very interested in something with some rocker for skiing on new snow days only. I primarily ski close to home so I usually have a second set of skis in the car if conditions are different than I anticipate.  I am primarily looking for a ski that is fun in powder rather than supremely capable across a range of conditions.
 
I have been strongly considering the Rossi S7, Volkl Kuro or Volkl Katana and almost bought some Katanas recently when I located some for a good price. I could not immediately pull the trigger because I am not sure that they are really what I want (i.e. sacrifices fun or pure powder experience for a broader range of skills). I have not seen any good deals on S7s or Kuros (would need a 185 or 190 respectively).
 
Looking for your wisdom or suggestions and certainly willing to listen to other alternatives. Thanks.
post #2 of 22
The ON3P skis are getting a lot of good buzz, and I think they are now taking pre orders for next season at a reduced price.  They make a model that has dimensions almost identical to the S7, and they have a few skis in 190ish sizes.   You might want to check them out.

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?s=8cdc66b82fab6c18aed26fd843894444&t=164091

http://www.epicski.com/forum/thread/93543/on3p-skis-bear-s-point-of-view 
post #3 of 22
 IMO the three obvious suspects are 

1) Praxis Powder Boards (195)
2) K2 Pontoon (179 or 189)
3) Volkl Kuro (185 or 195)

With the Pontoon or Kuro, I'd pick the size based on terrain and intended use. Even at 220 pounds, the shorter lengths are great in the trees, little chutes, etc. Nimble as hell & still solid.  If you are going to be out in the open skiing bigger lines, the bigger sizes may play better. However, for my .02, don't just blindly fall prey to the "bigger is better" chant wrt to rockered skis. Each of those sizes has their optimal environment. 

I skied a few powder laps with someone on Super 7s at Vail this season. He ripped on them. My guess is that at your weight, you'd likely want to be on the Supers rather than the regular S7s if you went that route.

The Praxis ProTest might be another contender -- but I think it gives up something in pure powder vs the Powder Board.

Lots of reviews of all of these here & all over the place (probably most notably TGR).
post #4 of 22
 I'd check out the DPS Lotus 120 190cm.  My buddy has them and he looks like he just got laid for the first time every time he finishes his turns.  They're taking pre-orders right now at 15% off.  Wish I had the paper to pull the trigger and trade up from my prophets
post #5 of 22
Thread Starter 
Thanks for all the great suggestions--I have been combing the boards and the various manufacturer's websites this evening. 

By the way, this is exactly what I am looking for:


Quote:

 he looks like he just got laid for the first time every time he finishes his turns

Does your fried ski the more expensive carbon or the hybrid fiberglass version?  Hard to envision paying north of $1,000 for a specialty ski.

Both ON3P (Caylor primarily, the Cease and Desist sounds like it would be stiffer than I want) and Praxis (Protest or Powders) are intriguing.  As a Utahn, I guess I ought to check out Bluehouse too.  Any thoughts on the Maestro or the Maven?
post #6 of 22
 Taking you at your word: Praxis Powder, Pontoons, DPS 138 Lotus, are all truly dedicated powder tools that rule there, and only there. S7's, Protests, and such are great skis, and far more versatile, but it's a question of whether you want great in the deep, or the best there is...
post #7 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
but it's a question of whether you want great in the deep, or the best there is... 
 

Great question and one I have been pondering for while since I initially read your post.  I guess the answer is that I am a resort skier and, while I primarily ski at Snowbasin and can ski uncut or marginally cut lines for most of a "powder day", I still have to get back to the lift, get out to whatever line I am skiing etc. 

Accordingly, I want a ski that is better than marginal at doing that and is "great" in the deep.  What I don't care about is its crud, packed or mogul peformance.
post #8 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by SB77 View Post

Thanks for all the great suggestions--I have been combing the boards and the various manufacturer's websites this evening. 

By the way, this is exactly what I am looking for:


 


Does your fried ski the more expensive carbon or the hybrid fiberglass version?  Hard to envision paying north of $1,000 for a specialty ski.

Both ON3P (Caylor primarily, the Cease and Desist sounds like it would be stiffer than I want) and Praxis (Protest or Powders) are intriguing.  As a Utahn, I guess I ought to check out Bluehouse too.  Any thoughts on the Maestro or the Maven?


 

Just a little note. Scott at ON3P is willing to work with the customer to dial in the flex of the ski to suit the rider.
post #9 of 22
This question will make a big difference - do you charge and drop stuff, or do you want a more playful / slashy type of ski?

If you drop much and charge a lot, at your size, you may find there isn't enough tail on pontoons / kuros / s7s. You might get on better with a ski like the katana, atlas, rocker or bluehouse shoots.

Personally, I'm 6'1", 170lbs, reasonably aggressive skier, drop up to around 40' and I ski the rocker as my dedicated powder ski. I have the bentchetlers as a playful all mountain ski which is great for up to around 15'. I've tried the pontoons and kuros and found them a lot of fun for playing around in powder and great in the trees, but didn't have the stablility or tail for higher speeds. Finally, and just my opinion, but I found the s7 the most overrated ski that I've ever tried, and it didn't do anything well for me, being really floppy in the tip and tail but with a stiffish dead feeling underfoot.

Demo as many as you can if possible.
post #10 of 22
Just throwing the New Icelantic Keeper into the mix. 150-119-140 tip/tail rocker, camber underfoot. Tail rocker is moderate. I did not ski them last week but the flex is moderate. Looks to be a great pow board will be available going up to189
post #11 of 22
Splatula, coming soonish from PM Gear.

attachment.php?attachmentid=75958&stc=1&d=1268974917
post #12 of 22
Waterskis definitely slay the pow best, and almost every resort powder day will end up with cut chowder and crud, where reverse/reverse still slays with a variable turn radius, and tapered rockered tip.

Those BROs  look like money in the deep.

Some savvy analysis at Praxis' website;praxisskis.com/index.php
Don't just mistrust the new shapes, I remember when shaped skis were mistrusted, and now everybody except some retro grouches ride shaped boards.
Edited by Buttinski - 4/22/10 at 1:21pm
post #13 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by SB77 View Post

Does your fried ski the more expensive carbon or the hybrid fiberglass version?  Hard to envision paying north of $1,000 for a specialty ski.

( Powders) are intriguing.  As a Utahn, I guess I ought to check out Bluehouse too.  Any thoughts on the Maestro or the Maven?

 
For pure pow sticks, the Praxis Powders are now made in a 205 (great for your build) which ski much shorter due to the Reverse/Reverse profile of the ski. I am 5'10" & 190lbs, ski the 195's and would have no problems on the 205.
DPS makes some of the most schizzalating pow skis out there, but are way more than this poor boy wants to pay.
ON3P has some nice skis, and priced for mere mortals.However, I would be very surprised to hear they ski like the Praxis or DPS skis in deep pow. I thought the Cease and Desist sounded like a pretty good ski for you in a 191.
I am not a Bluehouse fan, but it all fairness have only skied the 1st generation Districts.
For deep powder, I am a rev/rev fan period. At this price, I would buy these!!!!! http://www.bentgate.com/dpslo138hysk.html
post #14 of 22
Thread Starter 

Let me again say that I am very appreciative of all your thoughts.  It has led me to consider brands and ski desgins I would not have otherwise considered and led to a lot of time researching on various forums and the respective manufacturer's websites.

 

In response to Philm, I believe I am definitely looking for a fun/slashy type ski.  I did not drop anything more than 10 foot max in the last couple of years.   I find myself in and around trees a lot searching for powder so maneuverabillity is much more important to me.

I have definitely become intrigued with the idea of the Spatula/Waterski design but would be reluctant to pull the trigger without every trying anything like it (I am too old to just accept it without trying).  I would love to get on a pair of Praxis Powders.  By the way, I have exchanged a number of messages with Mike at DPS and they have a number of last years skis at the same discount as the Lotus 138s at Bentgate.  I used the "ski finder" at DPS and they suggested that I ought to go with the Wailer 112 RP (new next year---pre-ordering now).  It looks like a pretty cool ski in the S7/Llahsa vein and has a fair amount of buzz at TGR etc.

Anyway, all this effort has not resulted in anything definitive for me yet.  I have decided to either try to get something at a pretty good deal now or wait until I get a chance to try a Spatula type ski and reconsider the whole thing.  I will stipulate that the second alternative probably makes a lot more sense but forces me to wait (defer gratification).  If I do buy sooner rather than later, the following are currently in the running:

(1) Volkl Kuro 195 for $530ish.
(2) ON3P Billygoat (not sure what the May presale price would be but I am guessing $450-$500)
(3) DPS Wailer 112RP Hybrid ($679 preorder)--not willing to spend the $$$ for the Pure version.


 

post #15 of 22
For the uncut pow there are like OK skis and really good skis.
The OK skis are:

K2 Pontoons
Volkl Kuros
Bluehouse Mavens and the such.

But there are REALLY GOOD SKIS for the REAL UNTRACKED. These are very pricy and incorporate carbon to decrease weight and increase poppiness:
DPS Lotus 138 or Lotus 120s if you want more versatility. The 120s are such a huge and unbelievable fun that I have just made a pre-order.

Also, check your PMs. 
post #16 of 22
I LOVE the Kuros, but I'm not sure how nippy they would be in the trees.  I'm not a great skier but I found these basically skiied for me, they make life very very easy, but as far as getting on top of them and doing short turns would be harder (too hard for me!)  For open untracked bowls I'd give my right arm to make sure I have Kuros on.  But as you say, getting back or to the lift is a bit of an issue.  I had to get down very narrow moguled tracks to get back from a heavenly bowl, and it was a work out, fun though.  Worth the hassle to get the fun of the bowl though without a doubt.
Also worth noting I only just fit them in the loops of my pack for a hike and I was gawped at and gossiped about in every lift I went in, but maybe your resort is more fat ski friendly!
post #17 of 22
I'm 6'2" 250# and bought the 185 Kuros last year (before the 195 came out).  I ski mostly the Tahoe area (Kirkwood, Squaw, Alpine Meadows, Mt Rose, and Sugarbowl) and spend 85+% of the time off-piste   I also have 3 yr old Mantras and last years Gotamas.and have over 25 powder days on them with anywhere from 6 inches to 7 feet of fresh powder.

On powder days I always reach for the Kuros - never think twice about it.  They absolutely rock.

Because of the rocker I find them extremely nimble in tight spaces like chutes and trees, in open spaces you can turn them loose, and they are surprisingly manageable in bumps.  They are very stable on landings if you catch air (intentionally or otherwise).  They definitely perform better if you get on them rather than ski from the back seat and they are very forgiving if you get sloppy.  On powder days my buddies ski Gotamas and K2 Obsethed, but they can't keep up, even though a couple are better skiiers/boarders.  Given that I'm probably in the worst shape of the group of about 8-10, my legs also seem to last longer on the really deep days.

As for soft groomed, they carve just fine, but doing it all day will take it's toll on your knees just because of the greater forces for any wider ski - but hey thats what quivers are for.  If it's bullet proof leave them in the truck.

The only downsides are skating on flats is harder and the side walls/top sheets are brittle (cosmetic), but I've always managed to get back to the lifts for another run.  As the bases of mine look like a picasso painting with ptex, I could claim the bases are soft, but I've abused them quite a bit and rock is supposed to be harder than skis anyway.

Oh, I have them mounted with Marker Dukes and they've never released anywhere they shouldn't have.

There are a lot of good skis out there, but the Kuros won't dissapoint you.
post #18 of 22
Thread Starter 
I do believe that the Kuro would definitely be a good and safe choice since I have a lot of experience and confidence with Volkl freeride skis.  Your thoughts echo my friend at work who finds that he used his Kuros 2/3rds of the time in a subprime snow year (though less so at Snowbird where he usually skis).
Quote:

Also worth noting I only just fit them in the loops of my pack for a hike and I was gawped at and gossiped about in every lift I went in, but maybe your resort is more fat ski friendly!
 

The size only creates a problem for me on the multiple gondolas at my home resort (Snowbasin).  While I usually don't ski the gondolas that much on powder days, they don't work that well with my Gotamas or my kids Mantra Juniors so I have to think the Kuros would be an even bigger problem. The days of people gawking at fat skis are largely behind us in Utah.  The last time somebody made much any comment on my skis was about 3  or 4 years ago during a midweek powder day at Alta.  The people in particular had just flown in from the east coast and were skiing on AC-4s.  It shows how quickly things have changed when skis of Gotama width are considered daily drivers by many (though not me).

Quote:
I'm 6'2" 250# and bought the 185 Kuros last year (before the 195 came out).  I
 

Do you wish you had the 195s or are the 185s enough for you?  Having skied a fair amount in North Lake Tahoe the one thing that jumps to mind is that I occasionally find myself skiing lines through the trees that are a little tighter than a lot of what I have seen in Tahoe.
post #19 of 22
EP pros if you like more versatility and like doing tricks and riding switch in pow...
post #20 of 22
Huddler ate my more detailed response, so here's the quick version...

Regarding length:

Me = 6'1" and a bit north of 200 pounds. Mediocre but enthusiastic skier...

The 195 Kuro skis a ton bigger than the 185. The 185 has plenty of float & is more nimble. For my .02, if you are skiing tight places, trees, "playful terrain", etc. - do the 185 for sure.

If you are tempted by Praxis, the 195 Powder or the 196 ProTest would probably be the ticket. So fun. Especially with the Powder, the weight is in the middle, so it turns fast. FWIW, I used 185s this weekend (well, and 188 PTs and some 138s...) and they were just plain fun. Usually use 195s though.

Lotus 138 is much more "demanding" & seems to like a charging style more. Would not be my choice for a first step into this space - especially if trees, etc are your thing. Just my .02.

The Pontoon is still a hoot. You could do the 189.  Or even the 179 (mount +1) and have a tree slaying machine. Most under-appreciated ski ever.

I keep hearing lots of love for the S7 (which I have no skied)... It is becoming the standard daily workhorse of my local hill's patrol.

IMO the EP is big fun - but unless switch, etc is in your plans, the others are easier forward surfing machines for a first step. At your weight, if you go this direction be sure & get the 10/11 as it is stiffer. This year's supposedly was, but not really...

All are nimble as hell. Play with any one of these in powder or slush for a few days & your vision of what skiing is.
post #21 of 22

 

Dynastar Big Dump, Line Mothership (probably the 195) or Volkl Kuro 195!  I have owned the Salomon Rocker and skied both the S & Super 7 and for me they are just too soft, especially the S7 – hated that ski.  Obviously they are great as a designated "pow" skis but the thing I love about the Kuro and especially the Big Dumps & Motherships is no need to change out skis at a resort when it's under a foot or when things are getting tracked out after a good storm.  You can go the whole day know that you will be fine no matter what conditions you run into. I have skied the Dynastar Big Dump most of this season as a daily driver at Snowbird. My buddy has the Kuro 195 and put an aggressive 2-3 degree edge under foot so he has no problem holding an edge on the groomers or in steeper technical terrain.  That ski ROCKS!  I also have a 185 Mothership, Line Prophet 130, 06 Salomon Team Stock AK Lab Swallowtail, and a Dynastar WC GS race ski in my quiver but the Dumps seem to get the nod most the time. For reference I am close to your size, 5’11” and about 210 in gear.
post #22 of 22

Do you wish you had the 195s or are the 185s enough for you?  Having skied a fair amount in North Lake Tahoe the one thing that jumps to mind is that I occasionally find myself skiing lines through the trees that are a little tighter than a lot of what I have seen in Tahoe.

 

No I'm very happy with the 185's, more than enough float for my "slight" frame, although I haven't managed to hit Utah on a pure champagne pow day we've had some good stuff out here this year.

As for trees, I'm not talking about the big wide glades of Northstar and Heavenly (which does have tight too).  I'm thinking of the back side of Kirkwood, or Honeycomb Canyon at Solitude where they start out a few feet apart, but by the bottom you have to watch your shoulders and can barely fit your skis through the gap. 

We had around 540" at Kirkwood this season, and people still comment about my fat boards.  I particularly enjoy passing them when they get stuck in the deep stuff on the run-outs.
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