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First, learn to MOVE! - Page 2

post #31 of 46

Most competitors would tell you that winning is not all it's cracked up to be. I would tell you that it's not the goal, it's the getting there that matters. If a person uses competition to gauge "personal best" then it's served its ultimate purpose.
post #32 of 46
Originally posted by CalG:
Thank you for your consideration on this topic. I have held all the views mentioned. If I still held that they had a hope of allowing any kind of happiness, I would continue in their support. Sadly, I have seen and found that the consequences of winning
The grades, the car, the job, the gal, the house, the war,......
promises nothing more than the necessity to deal with these things along with much ill will by those denied.
you make a strong case for pathetic mediocrity. thank god you weren't in charge of evolution.
post #33 of 46
[you make a strong case for pathetic mediocrity. thank god you weren't in charge of evolution].

When the rabbits are scarce, the fox starve.

post #34 of 46
Thread Starter 
Yo, Tog! You finally show back up here, and you bring up the travesty of strip aerobics??? [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Although the subject of whether kids should be exposed to competive in school, and at what age is a good one, and one perhaps worth exploring in a different thread, I think the important issue here, is how do we create an environment where a child, or even an unathletic adult, can learn, or if they feel motivated to, particpate in a sport.

I find it odd that so much emphasis is spent on determining "Why Johnny can't read" and nothing at all on "Why is Johnny a klutz?"

When someone comes to me and tells me that they are "uncoordinated", I tell them no, you have certain mucle groups that are not in balance with each other, and have developed movement patterns that are not functional.
Then we work on correcting this.
post #35 of 46
quote: from one of LM's earlier posts.
[So its not enough to just teach random sports to our kids. The movement skills necessary for those sports should be taught first.]

Studies I have read indicate youngsters learn motor skills and motions just by doing.

No instruction needed.

(readings from my efforts at coaching youth soccer. sorry, I can not cite the reference at this time.)

post #36 of 46
Originally posted by CalG:
When the rabbits are scarce, the fox starve.
Woah there, Tigger,
I go away for a couple of hours, and people talk about not feeding me, nor inviting me to strip aerobics.
But, I've had an idea for evening activities at the Utah gathering, where I can show my cunning and prowess, and competitive edge...

post #37 of 46
Thread Starter 
Originally posted by CalG:
Studies I have read indicate youngsters learn motor skills and motions just by doing.

No instruction needed.

So maybe "teach" is the wrong word. But exposure to movement activities should happen. And in many cases, it does not.
post #38 of 46
Originally posted by CalG:

Studies I have read indicate youngsters learn motor skills and motions just by doing.

CalG - read my earlier comment - some do - some don't - I had a reason (no proprioception) BUT even then an EARLY diagnosis would have aided attempts to overcome this. NONE of the bunch thatI did PE with(the klutzes) do ANY exercise now(recent school reunion) - it is associated with PAINFUL memories. (Me - I'm just a REALLY STUBBORN little bitch)
post #39 of 46
Thread Starter 
I LOVE this place! I can "hear" chutzpah pronounced with a Montana accent, and "klutz" with an Aussie accent!
Too Cool! [img]smile.gif[/img]

This gets back to 2 different threads, how far can you take the whole intuition thing, as well as Ant's comments about "guided discovery".

When I was a kid, some idiot tried to teach me to ride a bike by putting me at the top of the hill and letting go.

It did'nt work!

By saying that ALL children will learn motor skills just by doing, you are giving the upper hand to kids who have a more natural athletic abilty.

Not everyone can be a start athlete. Not everyone can be class valedictorian. But I believe that most healthy kids /people can learn to accept that, provided that they don't feel like motor morons. There's a big difference between not excelling at sports, and feeling clumsy all the time.

The way are system is set up now, we seem to go from one extreme to the other, either lots of competitve sports, or cut the PE department completely, give out free condoms, and make Heather has Two Mommies required reading for all school age kids! :
post #40 of 46
The degree of your experience is rare. Appropriate response is likely not to be had in a public school system P-E program. In your case, is repetiton of motion a useful mechanism for "improvement"?

You have said it. Not everyone can achieve similar standards of accomplisment.
It appears that we skiers accept age as the final equalizer. If one skis for a long time, they develope a certain economy of motion and "ski well considering thier age".

So much better than aging out of any performance standard set by competiton. There is no need to "retire", just continue to enjoy.

The essence is to accept diversity and offer understanding to our own and others difficulties.


Be careful in your efforts, The Hares are tough.

post #41 of 46
You state your belief that kids learn movements by doing. I agree!

But the problem is- THEY AREN'T DOING!
Kids would rather play video games than go out and ride a bike.

Life is full of "winners and losers". It's called natural selection. Whether young people want to believe it or not, they will be faced, at a rather early age, with the results of not being a winner. And in recent generations, I don't see our family units or schools doing anything to prepare them for this fact. Sports and other competitions (the kid who just won the National Spelling Bee comes from a school just down the street from me) DO prepare them for the struggle to excel and succeed!

Could it be that many young people today, act the way they do because they have never been "taught" the tenents of constructive growth through competition? Why do they carry weapons in to schools, with the sole intent of hurting others whom they feel they have been slighted by? Are their psyches so fragile that any negatism will set them off like a firework?

Are we creating generations of young people who now feel that they are "entitled" to anything they want, rather than having to work for it? And that there must be "an easy way" to get it? We've already made it too easy by lowering standards, and because society has become accepting of mediocrity!

We praise those in our society who achieve great things! But we, as a society, do very little to encourage the basic growth which will result in these exceptional successes! It's only because of the high standards within a particular family, or the single exceptional individual who makes this happen for themselves.

I believe that competition at very young ages is inappropriate. Preparation is a basic need prior to competition.
How would you like me to give you a flying exam after only having 5 hrs in the plane?
But at 35-40 hrs, many students are prepared to show their basic skills are solid.

So, let's get the kids playing! Encourage diversity in their participation of various sports. Do not encourage specialization until time constraints, finances, and established personal interest show a positive direction for the young person to follow.

post #42 of 46
quote from VSP:
[But the problem is- THEY AREN'T DOING!]
Which Kids? Mine are doing!

I agree with your position.

with exception that it is better to introduce adversity as early as possible (I don't know if you really said this in your post). I contend that the best time to introduce "the realities of life" is after the young individual has developed a strong sense of self worth. NOT BEFORE!

Consider that children are not just small adults. The nurturing and development period for we humans is one of the longest. What possible good can it do to have people become mired in the social/political anguish that our world is. Who feels that they enjoy life more because they have taken on many more life's worries?

Broad sweeping,
The autombile has destroyed most sense of personable interaction and accomodation, and the television has set the standards for what is socialy allowed.
A huge double standard exists! At least in our house.

My teenage son advised me that his friend's father had summed up the ethic.
"This is America,You can do anything you want, as long as you don't get caught."

My delema is providing examples ot cause and effect that demonstrate which actons lead to peace and happiness.

Last evening I played a bit of soccer with the 35+ guys. We had great fun, and I came home sweaty and too spent to do much of anything. Both of my boys asked if they could come along next week.

For me, that is a good sign

post #43 of 46

I would take the exam after 5 hours just to get the air time!

I haven't flown for over 12 years. Soaring is a wonderful thing!

post #44 of 46
Thread Starter 
Some of the generalized movement activities that Gambetta is speaking of are actually great for preventing future injuries.

Miriam Nelson, who writes about osteoporosis, spoke at our gym a few weeks ago. Apparently, they have found that givng kids unstructured jumping activities at an early age is an excellent way to build up bone density.

You can also tell if your kid may have any propensity towards ACL injuries in the future by watching how they land from a jump. This is REALLY important for parents of female soccer players.

But some companies have been getting overzealous about these exercise products for infants.

In the process of going from a crawl to a walk, certain muscle are developed. One of them being the famous transverse abdominal muscle.

But in a "my kid is better than your kid" world, parents are anxious to have their kids walking as soon as possible.

So they put their kids on these "baby walkers". Okay, so now the kid can walk, but they have not given themselves enough time to develop the muscles that will keep them in correct alignment in a standing position. So as they get older, they walk in a stooped position, and have all sorts of back problems.

To complicate matters even more, enter the Jolly Jumpers. It takes awhile for the muscles of the feet to develop properly. Can you guess what happens if an infant uses a jumping device before the muscles of their feet are developed?
Flat feet!

Flat feet can eventually lead to ACL or back injuries.
post #45 of 46
Originally posted by CalG:
The degree of your experience is rare. Appropriate response is likely not to be had in a public school system P-E program. In your case, is repetiton of motion a useful mechanism for "improvement"?

Only IF I can actually DO the movement - ski instructors took YEARS to teach me to flex ankles.
Fencing coach took years to teach me to tense one muscle & relax opposing one so I could 'hop' & lunge. He used to tap the muscle with a foil & keep telling me to make it tighter- once I had it right I was to do the opposite to get the movement. Result of this - I learnt how to jump from a standing start. Before that I couldn't get both feet more than 1 inch from the ground. Aerobics & gym people had spent YEARS trying to teach me to jump just 3-4inches.
post #46 of 46
Thread Starter 
One more thing: People can turn their lack of natural ability in any specific area into a different type of talent. Neither sport or dance comes naturally to me, so I spent the last 30 years of my life diligently studying the biomechanics involved in these activities. As a result, I developed a highly trained eye for detail, which is beneficial to my students.

Its all in your upbringing. My parents always thought it was important to turn your weaknesses into strengths.
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