EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › Ski Training and Pro Forums › Ski Instruction & Coaching › Just make it impossible for someone to learn!!! BTE VS LTE
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Just make it impossible for someone to learn!!! BTE VS LTE

post #1 of 29
Thread Starter 
If you turn right, your right foot's little toe is on edge.   If you turn left your left foot's little toe is on edge!!  WHEN THE FUDGE is you big toe on edge?!???!?!  What is the PSIA doing with this terminology??  Making it impossible for those that are monetarily lacking to learn??  Because all the terms are so insane??
post #2 of 29
 You're right, when you are turning left, you should stand on the distal end of your 5th metatarsal. I don't know what they are thinking with this big toe/little toe stuff. It really does make it hard. 
post #3 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by PimpinPanda View Post

If you turn right, your right foot's little toe is on edge.   If you turn left your left foot's little toe is on edge!!  WHEN THE FUDGE is you big toe on edge?!???!?!  What is the PSIA doing with this terminology??  Making it impossible for those that are monetarily lacking to learn??  Because all the terms are so insane??




Quote:
Originally Posted by epic View Post

 You're right, when you are turning left, you should stand on the distal end of your 5th metatarsal. I don't know what they are thinking with this big toe/little toe stuff. It really does make it hard. 

epic its so tough!!!

I am starting to think Pimpinpanda is actually a rabbit
jokes-funny-bunny-pancake
post #4 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by PimpinPanda View Post

If you turn right, your right foot's little toe is on edge.   If you turn left your left foot's little toe is on edge!!  WHEN THE FUDGE is you big toe on edge?!???!?!  What is the PSIA doing with this terminology??  Making it impossible for those that are monetarily lacking to learn??  Because all the terms are so insane??

first answer

your big toe is on edge whenever your turning, with 2 feet or outside skis only. you knew that why did you ask the question.

second answer

what terminology. Little toe edge, big toe edge, BTE and LTE are just shorteren verision of that. I am 100 percent sure I can explain LTE and BTE to a 7 year old. I can explain the movement to a 4 year old but they might not know it as well as me or the 7 year old. If you cant figure it out, I dont know how to help you.

third answer

some skis school reimburse you for taking exams and give free training. why dont you go join a ski school.

fouth answer 

again little toe edge doesnt sound insane to me, its sounds pretty simple. Just to check I just explained to my mom( between typing the second and fourth answers) who DOESNT ski and she got it right away. can you name another insane term for me?
post #5 of 29
 How about left and right? It really confuses me, why can't they say port and starboard? WTF is wrong with PSIA?!?
post #6 of 29
This is good. 
post #7 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre View Post

This is good. 

well I kinda of helped him out, but this smells like a under the bridge dweller to me.
post #8 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic View Post

 How about left and right? It really confuses me, why can't they say port and starboard?

Kinda makes sense since the nautical terms "fore" and "aft" are already so widely embraced in skiing lingo...
post #9 of 29
Thread Starter 
Okay, lte and bte is a CONTRAST.  It makes it seem like some times you have LTE, and some times BTE.   So when do you have BTE??  I am not a troll, just hanging out here to try to understand the lingo.  Your picture of the bunny is very cute, but I do not understand the relevance?  The relevance of my subject was it is confusing to have a contrast of BTE and LTE when you never have BTE, or at least noone has explained this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post








epic its so tough!!!

I am starting to think Pimpinpanda is actually a rabbit
jokes-funny-bunny-pancake

 
post #10 of 29
Ok ,one more time

When you are skiing in a left turn  on your edges your left foot is on it's LTE and your outside foot is on it's BTE. When you ski and are turning on the outside ski only you are on your BTE when you are skiing on your inside ski only you are on your LTE

Stand up , roll your ankles  both in the same direction and tip your feet on edge at the same time in bare feet. Look down .
Edited by GarryZ - 4/12/10 at 9:18pm
post #11 of 29
 Panda, GarryZ explained it well.  Remember, you're skiing on two skis (usually), and each one has an edge.  Generally, the outside ski is tipped onto its inside (big toe) edge, and the inside ski is tipped onto its outside (little toe) edge.  A wedge turn is an exception; both skis are on their big toe (inside) edges.
post #12 of 29
Here we go real slow, there are 4 side edges on skis. When you go left you are on both left edges, for the little kids I tell them call the edges Larry and Lucy, when you go right use the  2 right edges, Roger and Rachel, when doing this correctly Roger and Lucy  never play together, that is called a wedge. Tip them, turn them it doesn't matter so long as 2 lefts or 2 rights are working together simultaneously.

  If you tip onto your little toe in the snow, the big toe will tip also, if you just tip the big toe into the snow there is a greater probability that you will be doing a wedge or at the very least a stem. It's not rocket science although this year I did get a chance to ski with a NASA rocket scientist.
post #13 of 29
I'm with Snowbowler. Left turn=left edges. Right turn=right edges. Not much simpler than that!
post #14 of 29
I get really confused about the MTE. When do you use that?
post #15 of 29
 Panda is just bitter because he can't get a job teaching skiing.  Why is this?  Read his posts.  He's way to cool and rad.  For the record I do a lot of PSIA training and only see the alphabet soup LTE, BTE....  On Epic.  I don't think blaming PSIA for your confusion is helpful or accurate, but if it makes you feel better, then go for it.
post #16 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic View Post

 How about left and right? It really confuses me, why can't they say port and starboard? WTF is wrong with PSIA?!?

Larboard & Starboard would be even better.  Having two-syllable words for each side maintains symmetry, which is very important in skiing.
post #17 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by tetonpwdrjunkie View Post

 Panda is just bitter because he can't get a job teaching skiing.  Why is this?  Read his posts.  He's way to cool and rad.  For the record I do a lot of PSIA training and only see the alphabet soup LTE, BTE....  On Epic.  I don't think blaming PSIA for your confusion is helpful or accurate, but if it makes you feel better, then go for it.



yep same here, very rarely will you see the alphabet soup or hear it every day speak, even training clinics. Here is where the uber ski instructor nerds reside.

how couldnt he get a job teaching skiing? they will take ALMOST anyone and give ya a chance even if they dont ask for you to come back the next year.
post #18 of 29
 this thread was funny...

i get bte and lte and i don't even work with the psia....
post #19 of 29
post #20 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post


how couldnt he get a job teaching skiing? they will take ALMOST anyone and give ya a chance even if they dont ask for you to come back the next year.

 


Bush, like me, i doesn't think English is his? first language. I just don't think his communicalating skillz are adequate to successful teaching ski students. Probalby doesn't git the LTE BTE MTE because i am pretty sure pandas don't have BT's?  Adult giant pandas are generally solitary, but they do communicate periodically through scent marks, calls, and occasional meetings. The fact that the panda only mates once a year could explain the, ummmm, unique attitude of his? poastings. Dookey67 is pretty good at desyphering obscure dialetcts maybe he can help us understand teh Panda.
post #21 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by borntoski683 View Post

This should help: http://home.comcast.net/~steveham21/turbo.mpg

bts I fully understood that, but don't know if I agree with everything he said.  in the interest of fairness we might want to start another thread to pick apart the details of his description.
post #22 of 29
BTE = inside (of the ski) edge  (towards the middle of your body)
LTE= outside (of the ski) edge  (towards the outside of your body)

Big Toe Edge (hmmm - now just where are my big toes? - oh there they are, in the middle, right under my crotch.

I actually don't think PSIA started using this terminology first, I think it was actually Harald Harb, at least that's where I first heard it.
post #23 of 29
I dont know this guy as I have not been around here much lately,...but keep in mind that Epic has taken on a language of its own.  This is espcially true amongst the regular posters, terms like BTE get thrown around alot without providing a definition, also the obvious gets dropped as "assumed" because it was discussed to death earlier on.

If I understood the OP question he seemed to be asking why are all these threads and posts dedicated to LTE?  Isnt BTE important?  Of course he knows BTE is more important, you can do a good turn with your LTE in the air.....but it is never discussed...what is going on??????????????????
post #24 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidude72 View Post

I dont know this guy as I have not been around here much lately,...but keep in mind that Epic has taken on a language of its own.  This is espcially true amongst the regular posters, terms like BTE get thrown around alot without providing a definition, also the obvious gets dropped as "assumed" because it was discussed to death earlier on.

If I understood the OP question he seemed to be asking why are all these threads and posts dedicated to LTE?  Isnt BTE important?  Of course he knows BTE is more important, you can do a good turn with your LTE in the air.....but it is never discussed...what is going on??????????????????

there was a thread about one footed skiing that i am pretty sure got this thread rollin
post #25 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidude72 View Post

 This is espcially true amongst the regular posters, terms like BTE get thrown around alot without providing a definition, also the obvious gets dropped as "assumed" because it was discussed to death earlier on.

Lok at the OP though. He doesn't say BTE or LTE he says little toe edge. The later posters are saying LTE, etc. I find it a little hard to believe that he can't figure out what a little toe edge is.
post #26 of 29
Im with skidude here. For an outsider like panda it probably looks like this:
LTE = Good
BTE = Bad

But the truth is that skiing is all about outside ski pressure and the BTE.
post #27 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by PimpinPanda View Post

Okay, lte and bte is a CONTRAST.  It makes it seem like some times you have LTE, and some times BTE.   So when do you have BTE??  I am not a troll, just hanging out here to try to understand the lingo.  Your picture of the bunny is very cute, but I do not understand the relevance?  The relevance of my subject was it is confusing to have a contrast of BTE and LTE when you never have BTE, or at least noone has explained this?
 

You're making it way too complicated. Yes, it's a contrast like "left" and "right". Does using the word "left" imply anything else? Big toe and little toe refers to sides of the foot which most people know about and don't get all that confused about. Using the term refers to an action that one does with the foot - ie. tipping it to the big toe or little toe side. You're right though, more precise terms such as evert and invert , medial and lateral would be more accurate and less insane in some ways. 
 Believe it or not, it's not that uncommon for adults to get confuddled about which is left and right - it requires some thought for them. Haven't you ever had a friend who tells you "go left" in the car, you do, and then they said you went the wrong way?

Well at least this thread gave us this photo of a rabbit with a pancake on its head. For that it was worth it! Truly hilarious. Relevance? It's a bunny with a pancake on it's head...come on! Actually, that's not accurate. It has two pancakes on it's head! Note that the pancakes are stacked with the "tops" facing out. What do you call that? A pancake moonpie? I guess a bunny with a pmp on it's head is better than a rabbit fried with an emp anyday. (please don't post photos of that one)
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post

jokes-funny-bunny-pancake

 

 
post #28 of 29
All of this said, I believe we do our students--especially at the lower levels, a service by proactively talking about LTE, rather than BTE.    I can tell automatically if an instructor taught BTE to a level 4 student.      Still got a wedge, but they are BTEing.    Then I ask the question,,,"how do we turn"     Pause...."lets see, you push on the opposite side of the way you want to go"    


That instructor just started habit for his/her student that will be hard to break.       Pushing the outside ski away from the body.   The intent may have been to simpy edge the BTE, but its so easy to push on it once engaged that it becomes natural.   And some instructors actively tell students to "push" on it.         



Rather, what I have found in teaching LTE---4 yr olds get it.   Want to go left, put your left pinky toe in the snow.     Left=Left.   No pause and have to figure out an equation.     Better yet, to go Right, think and do.. right pinky toe in the snow, turn your right leg,foot, toes, right.     Teaching rotary, talk turning.  Teaching edging, talk toes in the snow.    

You might get a one-two move, but its a better one two move than the opposite one-two.   And eventually the skier will solve his/her own 1-2 issue starting with the LTE.   But rarely will the BTE training method 1-2 go away by itself.   


All of this said, there is time and place for talking about BTE----when teaching outside ski edging, which as noted is of supreem import.     Just not pushing it, which I know this thread did not discuss, but many students begin doing it because its so natural or easy to do.     Not so easy to push away from LTE unless its the end of the turn and you want to go further uphill.     
post #29 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic View Post




Lok at the OP though. He doesn't say BTE or LTE he says little toe edge. The later posters are saying LTE, etc. I find it a little hard to believe that he can't figure out what a little toe edge is.
Reread the thread title. He is confused about the why and whens, me thinks
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Ski Instruction & Coaching
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › Ski Training and Pro Forums › Ski Instruction & Coaching › Just make it impossible for someone to learn!!! BTE VS LTE