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Truth About Powder Skis - Page 3

post #61 of 97

Just read this forum on the nu skool fatties around.

 

I'm 18, and consider myself a half smeggy park rat, half powder whore.

 

so, as u could imagine, i got a set of pontoons to add to my quiver (shane mcconkey limited ed. RIP). Ive had a few days out with them in around 3 foot fresh, and I dont care whether people say its just like a snowboard etc...if it makes it easyer to drive the pow, then why not?

post #62 of 97

great

post #63 of 97

Is this about Skis or oil spill?

To get back to fatties: I Love my now 6 year old and used up Rossignol Scratch BC. Wish I had another pair of them . But fortunately time doesn't stand still in ski evolution. The back country skis are getting fatter and more interesting each year. Although I will have to adapt my technique on a new ski, I think the development is great. It just proves how much about snow and snow sports there is to learn.

I don't think it is about how well a youngster should be able to ski. Let them decide for themselves. There are people that grew up on sate sticks and elegant moves. But can they remember how they felt about wooden telemark skis without a proper binding and only one pole?

I guess that trying out new materials and new techniques is makes the sport fun in the long run. So stop nagging and enjoy the next season!

post #64 of 97

past about 110 width i have no use for fattys. Maneuverability takes a hit.  I like striking a balance between sinking and floating and when it gets too fat it's not as much fun. Everyone has their goto powder boards, i like my line 100s

post #65 of 97

This entire debate fascinates me, and I think it similar to the hardtail vs full suspension debate in the mountain bike community.  Skinny skies are inferior in many ways to rockered big fat skis.  However, skiing powder on skinny race skis (as I did when I was young) teaches you technique.  I think it shouldn't be an either or thing.  Rather, we should view at as a progression.  As a mountain biker I road for a long time on a Giant XTC hard tail.  It was awesome and enjoyed it a lot.  This past summer I switched to a Santa Cruz Blur, and I am amazed at the things I can do with it.  However, I know that the technique I learned from riding my hardtail makes me a much better climber than those who started riding full suspensions.  Powder skis are much the same.  On the mountain you can easily distinguish between those that grew up with a solid base, and those that simply use the fat ski to help them float.  When fat skis are utilized correctly it makes the skier look that much better.  All of this either/or, new school vs old school, boarder vs. skier, is obnoxious, and it does little to progress the sport in a positive direction. 

post #66 of 97

Now I am amittedly Old School, but the new "Pontoon" skis seem to miss the point of powder IMO.

 

Alaskan bush pilots need pontoons on their aricraft so not ot sink during landings on cold lakes.  Equation easy to make:   Lake Cold / Sink Bad

 

But powder is an artistic, tactile, sensual medium you need to immerse yourself in at least partly to truly experience.  Pontoons surely have their place and application, but for the majority of powder skiers I would say their usage would be depriving them of the full experience.

 

Would you offer a chocolate lover a piece of delicious chocolate, and on their acceptance take out a cheeze shaver, scrape a paper thin layer off the top an hand it to them?  Is powder not the same?

post #67 of 97


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertFrostFan View Post

Now I am admittedly Old School, but the new "Pontoon" skis seem to miss the point of powder IMO.

 

Alaskan bush pilots need pontoons on their aricraft so not ot sink during landings on cold lakes.  Equation easy to make:   Lake Cold / Sink Bad

 

But powder is an artistic, tactile, sensual medium you need to immerse yourself in at least partly to truly experience.  Pontoons surely have their place and application, but for the majority of powder skiers I would say their usage would be depriving them of the full experience.

 

Would you offer a chocolate lover a piece of delicious chocolate, and on their acceptance take out a cheeze shaver, scrape a paper thin layer off the top an hand it to them?  Is powder not the same?

 


No.  I've had days where the snow was thick and sticky and if you were to sink your tips, you were brought to a dead stop and then had to dig your skis out.  I've also had 2 foot days on top of NOTHING, where if you didn't have a fat ski you were skiing on rocks and destroying your skis.  It's really more about having the right tool for the job rather than just making a tool for another job work for you in that set of circumstances.  You wouldn't ski a rockered, 5-point pintail ski on an SL course or a really hard day and I expect that the opposite would make sense as well.  It's not that you can't- there's plenty of people who could, I don't think anyone's questioning that...  It's more of a "Why would I?".  The physics of powder and hard snow are very different and it's a very 3-dimensional relationship between a powder ski and deep snow.  Different skis are built to plane, turn and distribute weight in very different manners and this should be matched to an individual skier's skiing style and conditions.  "Powder skis" is a very broad term after all, and means many different things to many different people.  

 

I'll never knock someone for the skis they enjoy and it never ceases to amaze me when people try to come up with reasons that the advancement of ski technology is bad.  The same could be said for the advent of metal edges or sidecut in their respective days.  I would implore such an analytical person as yourself to try them on a BIG day and see if they are as enjoyable for YOU - because after all that's what matters most.  

post #68 of 97



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Do Work View Post


 

 


No.  I've had days where the snow was thick and sticky and if you were to sink your tips, you were brought to a dead stop and then had to dig your skis out.  I've also had 2 foot days on top of NOTHING, where if you didn't have a fat ski you were skiing on rocks and destroying your skis.  It's really more about having the right tool for the job rather than just making a tool for another job work for you in that set of circumstances.  You wouldn't ski a rockered, 5-point pintail ski on an SL course or a really hard day and I expect that the opposite would make sense as well.  It's not that you can't- there's plenty of people who could, I don't think anyone's questioning that...  It's more of a "Why would I?".  The physics of powder and hard snow are very different and it's a very 3-dimensional relationship between a powder ski and deep snow.  Different skis are built to plane, turn and distribute weight in very different manners and this should be matched to an individual skier's skiing style and conditions.  "Powder skis" is a very broad term after all, and means many different things to many different people.  

 

I'll never knock someone for the skis they enjoy and it never ceases to amaze me when people try to come up with reasons that the advancement of ski technology is bad.  The same could be said for the advent of metal edges or sidecut in their respective days.  I would implore such an analytical person as yourself to try them on a BIG day and see if they are as enjoyable for YOU - because after all that's what matters most.  



Actually...there's lots of people in here that would...

 

I'm not one of them.

post #69 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by FujativeOCR View Post



 



Actually...there's lots of people in here that would...

 

I'm not one of them.


 

Touche!    

post #70 of 97


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Czernobog View Post

This entire debate fascinates me, and I think it similar to the hardtail vs full suspension debate in the mountain bike community.  Skinny skies are inferior in many ways to rockered big fat skis.  However, skiing powder on skinny race skis (as I did when I was young) teaches you technique.  I think it shouldn't be an either or thing.  Rather, we should view at as a progression.  As a mountain biker I road for a long time on a Giant XTC hard tail.  It was awesome and enjoyed it a lot.  This past summer I switched to a Santa Cruz Blur, and I am amazed at the things I can do with it.  However, I know that the technique I learned from riding my hardtail makes me a much better climber than those who started riding full suspensions.  Powder skis are much the same.  On the mountain you can easily distinguish between those that grew up with a solid base, and those that simply use the fat ski to help them float.  When fat skis are utilized correctly it makes the skier look that much better.  All of this either/or, new school vs old school, boarder vs. skier, is obnoxious, and it does little to progress the sport in a positive direction. 


IMO the techniques can be so different on the new stuff that its almost pointless to bother with the old stuff except for true masters of the sport.

 

The speed of my skiing on fat skis in powder is so much faster than on a skinnier pair there is no way you could totally utilizes what it there for you unless you spend tons of time really learning how to make the big boards work.

 

Same with bikes. FS can be faster, if you willing to forget alot of things about riding a hardtail. IE instead of picking clean lines like you would on the hardtail you can just plow and pedal with nearly reckless abandoned with the FS bike. The FS bike is faster if your willing to pick the fast but 'dirty" line.The one habit you pick up on a hardtail is standing to climb which doesnt work to well on FS designs even the best with either mechinical lock out or shock lock out.

post #71 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Do Work View Post


 

 


No.  I've had days where the snow was thick and sticky and if you were to sink your tips, you were brought to a dead stop and then had to dig your skis out.  I've also had 2 foot days on top of NOTHING, where if you didn't have a fat ski you were skiing on rocks and destroying your skis.  It's really more about having the right tool for the job rather than just making a tool for another job work for you in that set of circumstances. .  

 

.  I would implore such an analytical person as yourself to try them on a BIG day and see if they are as enjoyable for YOU - because after all that's what matters most.  


 

I see your point, the medium is not always pleasurable and very quality dependent, and owning a quiver of equipment is a real plus for some people.  But on an epic pristine bluebird powder day, would you still grab the pontoons?   I will of course take your advice and try them.

 

And I welcome all technological and technique advancement, just that someitmes if it serves to take out too much of the need to operate eqipment manually, overrides the requirement for physical conditioning and good technique and something valuable can be lost in the process.

 

But I always think to myself where can things go from here, how can people possibly ski anything steeper than they are skiing now, how can they possibly huck bigger cliffs,, spend more time in the air, peform more twists and flips, etc. etc.  But they always manage to do so.  I am thinking skydiving "Glide" suits will make their way into ski suits (if not done already)   Those are the suits with material sewn in between the arms and the sides of the suit, spread your arms and you become a human kite.  One advantage is no traffic going back down the canyon to your home or lodgings, your last run  just wait for a good headwind and soar down above the car rooftops
 

post #72 of 97

I think it interesting that in a conversation about Wing Suits and Pontoons, you are unsure of weather skiing and wingsuits have been combined yet...

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertFrostFan View Post




 

I see your point, the medium is not always pleasurable and very quality dependent, and owning a quiver of equipment is a real plus for some people.  But on an epic pristine bluebird powder day, would you still grab the pontoons?   I will of course take your advice and try them.

 

And I welcome all technological and technique advancement, just that someitmes if it serves to take out too much of the need to operate eqipment manually, overrides the requirement for physical conditioning and good technique and something valuable can be lost in the process.

 

But I always think to myself where can things go from here, how can people possibly ski anything steeper than they are skiing now, how can they possibly huck bigger cliffs,, spend more time in the air, peform more twists and flips, etc. etc.  But they always manage to do so.  I am thinking skydiving "Glide" suits will make their way into ski suits (if not done already)   Those are the suits with material sewn in between the arms and the sides of the suit, spread your arms and you become a human kite.  One advantage is no traffic going back down the canyon to your home or lodgings, your last run  just wait for a good headwind and soar down above the car rooftops
 

post #73 of 97

There's some real nonsense going on. I don't know if it is trolling or not. But nonsense it is.

 

And yeah - that juxtaposition is hard to miss. 

post #74 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertFrostFan View Post

 But on an epic pristine bluebird powder day, would you still grab the pontoons?

 


If I owned a pair I would!  I swear!  I would describe it to you, but the english language does not contain words with which to accurately describe the feeling that is surfing bottomless untouched on a set of fat planks.     

post #75 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by FujativeOCR View Post

I think it interesting that in a conversation about Wing Suits and Pontoons, you are unsure of weather skiing and wingsuits have been combined yet...

 


 



Well if they have please elaborate.  I'm not claiming to posess knowledge in all areas, and will udoubtedly pose more questions than answers, combined with thoughts and observations on given subjects. 

post #76 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by FujativeOCR View Post

I think it interesting that in a conversation about Wing Suits and Pontoons, you are unsure of weather skiing and wingsuits have been combined yet...

 


 


 

No uncertainty whatsoever Fugative.  My thought was whether or not the technology has or will in the future start to more readily manifest itself into ski clothing fanufacturers products and become more readily available to the masses.  With ski schools possibly adding lessons on their usage, etc.
 

post #77 of 97

Apparently at some resorts in Utah, there is now the possibility of jail time for skiing to fast.  I should suspect if that is the way resorts are going, then wing suit rentals are a long ways out...

post #78 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post.The one habit you pick up on a hardtail is standing to climb which doesnt work to well on FS designs even the best with either mechinical lock out or shock lock out.

i dunno, some of the designs create a very firm platform for climbing so that almost the only penalty is the added weight.

post #79 of 97


this about sums it up.......
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertFrostFan View Post

Now I am amittedly Old School, but the new "Pontoon" skis seem to miss the point of powder IMO.

 

Alaskan bush pilots need pontoons on their aricraft so not ot sink during landings on cold lakes.  Equation easy to make:   Lake Cold / Sink Bad

 

But powder is an artistic, tactile, sensual medium you need to immerse yourself in at least partly to truly experience.  Pontoons surely have their place and application, but for the majority of powder skiers I would say their usage would be depriving them of the full experience.

 

Would you offer a chocolate lover a piece of delicious chocolate, and on their acceptance take out a cheeze shaver, scrape a paper thin layer off the top an hand it to them?  Is powder not the same?

post #80 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finndog View Post


this about sums it up.......
 


 


Yes Finndog, I am also well aware fat skis have been around awhile, not quite as fat and/or stubby as I have seen latley, especally at Alta this last winter, thus the "Pontoon" reference.  I'll try to spell ideas out in a more easy to understand format going forward for you.

 

I'm SO glad to see the boards do not have entrenched cliques and really roll out the welcome mat for new posters....

 

post #81 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by FujativeOCR View Post

Apparently at some resorts in Utah, there is now the possibility of jail time for skiing to fast.  I should suspect if that is the way resorts are going, then wing suit rentals are a long ways out...


post #82 of 97

Wait so the "Pontoon" comment was only a reference?  You actually aren't aware there is a ski called the Pontoon that has been around like 5 years already?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertFrostFan View Post




Yes Finndog, I am also well aware fat skis have been around awhile, not quite as fat and/or stubby as I have seen latley, especally at Alta this last winter, thus the "Pontoon" reference.  I'll try to spell ideas out in a more easy to understand format going forward for you.

 

I'm SO glad to see the boards do not have entrenched cliques and really roll out the welcome mat for new posters....

 

post #83 of 97

My question is why do some of you care what other people spend sliding down the mountain on? If skiing on old, skinny (relative term) skis makes you happy and you feel somehow superior by using them, by all means go right ahead. Why is it in this sport that there are some people with such huge attitudes? Is it because they are insecure in their own ability that they need to look for ways that others are "cheating"?  What other people do is of little matter to me. If they want to use a screw driver as a hammer, and it makes them happy let them.

post #84 of 97
post #85 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by FujativeOCR View Post

Wait so the "Pontoon" comment was only a reference?  You actually aren't aware there is a ski called the Pontoon that has been around like 5 years already?

 


 


I can see where that would be confusing (my fault, due aplologiies in order)  will strive for better clarification and reference in future.

 

Yes, name of ski referenced to the pontoons of an Alaksan bush plane, thought being that they are becoming increasingly more like the latter, wider and more bouyant all the time it seems.
 

post #86 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by FujativeOCR View Post

Apparently at some resorts in Utah, there is now the possibility of jail time for skiing to fast.  I should suspect if that is the way resorts are going, then wing suit rentals are a long ways out...


trust me not at snowbird....

 

they let paragliders fly there from the slopes over any cliffs they want.

post #87 of 97

you hit it right on the money.  Some like to earn their turns.  Others like lifts.  Some like snowboards and others like freeheals.  Some like NTN.  Its really personal taste and should be left at that.

post #88 of 97


I love my 78mm wide skis too. I always look to see what's new out there and do my best to try it out.  Pontoon is also the name of a peak in AK that's uber sick and I am pretty sure the ski was named after the peak and not the bouyancy devices on a plane ......  I also thought you were saying toon's were new....  

 

 

"The Pontoon, named after an Alaskan peak that first succumbed to the late Shane McConkey (who designed this ski), remains a top ride for Chugach chargers, but the ski is also good at erasing errors by less than pro-level powder hounds.' 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertFrostFan View Post




Yes Finndog, I am also well aware fat skis have been around awhile, not quite as fat and/or stubby as I have seen latley, especally at Alta this last winter, thus the "Pontoon" reference.  I'll try to spell ideas out in a more easy to understand format going forward for you.

 

I'm SO glad to see the boards do not have entrenched cliques and really roll out the welcome mat for new posters....

 


Edited by Finndog - 9/17/10 at 1:09pm
post #89 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDoyal View Post

My question is why do some of you care what other people spend sliding down the mountain on? If skiing on old, skinny (relative term) skis makes you happy and you feel somehow superior by using them, by all means go right ahead. Why is it in this sport that there are some people with such huge attitudes? Is it because they are insecure in their own ability that they need to look for ways that others are "cheating"?  What other people do is of little matter to me. If they want to use a screw driver as a hammer, and it makes them happy let them.


This about sums it up.

post #90 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post




trust me not at snowbird....

 

they let paragliders fly there from the slopes over any cliffs they want.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Czernobog View Post

you hit it right on the money.  Some like to earn their turns.  Others like lifts.  Some like snowboards and others like freeheals.  Some like NTN.  Its really personal taste and should be left at that.

Speaking of the right to do your own thing, flying over any cliff you want, etc., have you seen this video of a French paraglider swooping down faces, setting off an avalanche, risking his neck with a huge grin on his face. I'm with those who want to keep skiing as free and unregulated as possible, so long as it is only your own neck which is at risk.

 

http://en.vidivodo.com/376472/speed-riding-and-overflying-avalanche
 

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