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GS race skis with shorter turn radius than FIS legal

post #1 of 13
Thread Starter 

I have some FIS legal skis that I have been fighting with for a long time.  The problem is that the race league I race in doesn't set FIS courses.  The courses we get are more likely to have 15 to18 meter radius turns, and those 21 meter skis are a bear to get around on cleanly.  Ok, so I end up with  a lot of skidding on the steeper part of the hill.
I have heard of "club racing" or "cheater" GS skis but I don't know what the choices are.  I run a high 30 or low 40 handicap and weigh 165 pounds and run in a vet class.  Vet class is polite speak for old fart.
What kind of ski do you recommend?  I would rather be running handicaps in the 20's.

post #2 of 13
Almost every ski maker makes a cheater GS race ski, most in the 17 or 18 radius range for a 175cm ski. Start by looking at their web sites. Your question is to general to answer beyond that.
post #3 of 13
Nowadays a 21 meter GS ski is almost considered a cheater ski when you consider that current FIS skis are 27 meter and are more stable and feel like they have a longer turn radius than 215 cm Super G skis of the past.  When I free ski I'm thankful I kept a pair of 21 meter skis because they feel like rec skis compared to the current models.  Funny thing is |I used to take my old 215 cm Super G's into mogul fields on the back side of Lake Louise in the past, for a lark, but I wouldn't dream of doing that with my current 191 cm FIS GS boards.
post #4 of 13
I just skied on a few of the new offerings.

Head Wc i.speed 180 cm 18M radius (current year)

Fischer Wc RC4 Rc Pro 175cm 17M Radius (Next year's, 71mm waist)

Atomic D2 Race Gs 179cm (18.4 radius)

The Fischer and the Head skied very stiff. The fischer Reps said the 180 is even more ridiculous then the 175 flex wise. Way too beefy. 

I gotta be honest the Double deck Atomic was amazing!!!  ssmooth and powerful with it's Vario flex Decks. Longitudianlly smooth and but held equally as well as the Fischer and Head. turn initiation was very easy as the very tip osf the ski is soft until the top deck engages and the ski stiffens progressively as you apply pressure. Very impressive Cheater Gs ski and probalby my choice for Masters Gs next season!
post #5 of 13
Thread Starter 
Thanks to all for your replies,

  I have been scouring the web after posting this thread and still haven't answered the basic question of what radius I am looking for.  Sure, my skill level should be a guide here, as well of advice I get from fellow racers.  We also have tighter modified GS courses in our league than you may expect.
  I am impressed with the Atomic D2 GS skis.  What you have said syncs with advice from some of the people I race with.  I am inclined toward the 174 cm with the 17.8 radius.  I see on their web site they also have a race ti ski that is even turnier.  Do you have any experience on the Ti race skis?
  I have always liked Atomic skis and only switched these Rossi's when I broke both Atomic binding heel-pieces and face-planted out of the starting gate a few years ago.  I understand they have fixed the binding glitches now.
  Most of my 21 years racing have on skis that were more than I was able to control, like the 181 FIS Rossi WC I have now.  Too long and too straight for my skills.  Any turnier ski will help to lower my high 30's handicaps.  I didn't learn to ski until I was 45 and I will never be a Masters competitor, but I am still improving and would like some help from my equipment.
  I have recently switched to racing on my 174 cm K2 Apache Recons and my results have been better because I can quit fighting the skis and pay more attention to the course.  They work pretty well on a tight GS course although I can see that the mod-rail type Marker bindings have a lot of slop between the bindings and the rails.  I have no idea what the radius is but I am sure it is less than any race ski I would buy.

Thanks again,
Keith
post #6 of 13
look for a junior race ski or even a longer slalom ski. Also some companies are making skier cross specific skis, they are designed for speed but are easier to turn than races skis.

This might work for you, cheap too!

http://www.amazon.com/K2-Moto-Team-Junior-Race/dp/B00300TVGQ
post #7 of 13
Definetly go shorter. I weigh about 190lbs. & the D@ Race Gs in a 179 was a perfect length..

One key to success in the course is the ability to bend the ski above the fallline. It is not just radius (As evidenced by my Demo) The Fischer had the tightest radius but was also the stiffest. Ya gotta be able to bend the ski and you want the ski to absorb roughness not trnasmit up to you. A sfter ski longitudinally, but stiffer torsional is a great combo. And that is exactly how the Atomic skied.
post #8 of 13
I recommend taking a serious look at the Volkl Racetiger RC Titanium. These are a GS cheater ski. 15.5 m radius @ 168. I weigh 180# and and know how to flex a ski. I wouldn't use anything longer on our "short" set courses here in S.E. Michigan. Previously I raced Nastar and beer league on a 160 slalom but, I switched to these this year and my handicap dropped from a 25 to an 18 in one week. The edge hold when you tip 'em over is impressive to say the least. They feel like they are "gripping" into the snow. You won't skid these skis.
I would not suggest using a junior ski. At your weight, they may ski fine in the beginning but they will be short lived. My 145# son noodled out a pair of 170cm Volkl GS Jr in less than one season. It was time to move him up to an adult ski.

Karl
post #9 of 13

When you mention a 21m FIS ski, is this a ski that's about four or five years old, from when 21m was the official minimum radius?

If so, you might be interested in trying a current women's FIS ski at 23m.  Using Atomics (183 cm) as an example (personal favourite), I've found that they actually turn even more easily than my old 21m skis.

If you found you were really fighting the 21m FIS ski, then the D2 Race GS, a recreational racer, would feel pretty good.  This is still a very solid performing ski that will hold up well in a race course.  If possible, it would be ideal for you to try the 174 (17.8m) and the 179 (18.4m) to see which one works best.  If that's not an option, the 174 at would be a comfortable choice.
 
(edit) The TI series:  a good all-round ski, but I think a little relaxed for what you're looking for.


Edited by mogulmuncher - 4/6/10 at 4:45pm
post #10 of 13
Thread Starter 
  Thanks again everyone!  I am pretty sure what I want to demo, or maybe just grab this summer if I can find them and get the right price.  The Atomic D2 in the 174 size looks like what I want to try first.  I had wondered about Jr race skis too and am glad some of you steered me away from them.  I do want to get several years out of my next GS rockets.  I'm glad I asked!
  I took a friends advice and used my FIS 21M Rossis (about four years old - yes I bought left-overs) for free skiing on groomers this last week at Mammoth.  I have never used them off the course before.  It took about a day to find the right stance and the right timing on the transition.  I felt very confident on them although I am not sure everyone will agree with my findings.  I found them very smooth when I drew them in to about six or eight inches apart during the transition and let them go apart to between a foot and a foot and a half after I rolled and set the edges, let the outside ski go back about a foot behind the other at the same time, and stood on them until relaxing for the transition again.  They came into and out of the transition very smoothly.  If I were demoing them this week, I would have bought them.  Now I need more time on them to be more consistant and be better able to bend the timing to match the course.  It still made a big difference on the course on Sunday
  This weekend was the Far West Championships and I was only able to grab fifth or sixth place in GS in my class.  SL too but that's a different story.  I might be a little off on this as the official results are not posted on the web yet and I didn't go to the banquet.
  I still want the turnier skis for next year, but I have made friends with my Rossis and might decide to keep them too.  I am the anal type who would haul two pair to the top and decide after seeing the course.  Racers are wierd that way.
post #11 of 13
Here's another option you might want to try for the heck of it.  I use my FIS Atomic slaloms for 95% of my free skiing.  The reason is that I like the extra 'beef', but don't want to ski at mach schell on public slopes.  What's interesting about the FIS slaloms versus the rack slaloms, is that the radius of the FIS slalom is about 3 meters longer than the rack slalom (a shade over 13 meters).  You can ski it way faster than you would think possible, and it works very nicely in a tight, modified recreational GS course.  If you get a chance to try a FIS slalom from Atomic (since it seems to be your brand), I think you would fall in love with them.
post #12 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by exracer View Post

Here's another option you might want to try for the heck of it.  I use my FIS Atomic slaloms for 95% of my free skiing.  The reason is that I like the extra 'beef', but don't want to ski at mach schell on public slopes.  What's interesting about the FIS slaloms versus the rack slaloms, is that the radius of the FIS slalom is about 3 meters longer than the rack slalom (a shade over 13 meters).  You can ski it way faster than you would think possible, and it works very nicely in a tight, modified recreational GS course.  If you get a chance to try a FIS slalom from Atomic (since it seems to be your brand), I think you would fall in love with them.
 

Do you get mistaken for a lost skier from the East if you bring them out to Louise?
post #13 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogulmuncher View Post




Do you get mistaken for a lost skier from the East if you bring them out to Louise?

Haa haa.... I don't go to Louise much anymore.  I got tired of all the damage to my equipment from the rocks.  I spend most of my ski days at Nakiska.... aka 'Racer Nirvana'
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