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best thing you ever learned? (so far) - Page 2

post #31 of 51
>>>2. Harb's "phantom" foot move which includes tipping it to the little toe side.<<<

Wink, I don't understand., doesn't every skier do that on every turn? If not, how come they turn? You always tip the the skis to one side or the other, don't you?

post #32 of 51
Best Thing I ever learned was to end a turn with a pole plant. Everyone else teachs to start their turn with a pole plant. It is much more dynamic to end your turn with a pole plant or a double pole plant!<FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by NordtheBarbarian (edited April 03, 2001).]</FONT>
post #33 of 51
Ott, I think many skiers still pivot or twist their skis to turn. I see people on shaped skis doing this all the time. I also see some more advanced skiers hopping the tails of their skis on steeper and ungroomed terrain. Not efficient, but it works for them. I once worked with a coach that told us not to take anything away from a skier until you give them something (hopefully better) to replace it with.
post #34 of 51

You said "Best Thing I ever learned was to end a turn with a pole plant. Everyone else teachs to start their turn with a pole plant. It is much more dynamic to end your turn with a pole plant or a double pole plant!"

I am not sure if you are kidding or serious? What you call "end a turn with a pole plant" the rest of us call it "start the new turn with the pole plant". It is the same action expressed in different words. Why is "your version" more dynamic?

Am I mising something here?
post #35 of 51
Ending a turn with a pole plant has the effect of immediately starting the next turn. Tied with the end of the previous turn, it effortlessly links one turn with the next without a traverse. If you are linking turns, in tight places, it gives you more time in the turn itself with less time in the transition phase. In slalom racing, this is critical. If you are doing end of turn edge sets to control speed on tight steep terrain, then it acts as a brace for the edge set, and controls entry into the next turn. Try it, and you’ll see that linking turns this way feels less hurried. It’s an excellent tip for upper level skiing. Great comment from NordtheBarbarian.
post #36 of 51
Lucky, turning by pivoting without edging can maybe done on easy smooth ballroom hardpack, but you can't actually ski like that, and depending just how steep it is and what the conditions are, hopping from edge to edge gets you down that narrow chute where you would be in the rocks if you tried to make a round turn...

The majority of skiers tip the skis left and right, or little left toe to little right toe or roll the knees or ankles or however you may call that identical action.

post #37 of 51
Tom B

Ending the turn with a pole plant to me means reaching across a edged ski to pole plant. The body moves across the skis and down the hill. The skis continue across the hill in a different path than the body. Try it, I think you'll understand.
Starting a turn with a pole plant to doesn't emphasize the downhill movement across the edged ski.
This tip is also good for a turny GS as it moves the body down the hill toward the panel.
post #38 of 51

In reality, it is the basis for any turn, including SG or even DH turns, where there is no traverse from one turn to the next. In racing, a pole plant becomes a pole touch except on steep terrain. But you're right, it becomes the trigger for a cross over/under move.
post #39 of 51
edgreen & NordtheBarbarian

I see your point guys, but your definition of "ending the turn with a pole plan" is really no different from my definition of "starting a turn with a pole plan" unless you have a traverse between turns, of course. When linking slalom turns (or any type of turns without a traverse), there is a point where one turn ends and another begins. A pole plant at that point can be looked at as ending the old turn or starting the new turn. In fact if you were to continue in a traverse after ending the turn a "end-of-turn" pole plant would not be appropriate. It would make more sense to plan the pole after the traverse and just before the new turn. I can see however that a pole plant after an edge set in steep terrain does make sense even if a new turn is not immediately started.

And NordtheBarbarian, your comment that "Starting a turn with a pole plant doesn't emphasize the downhill movement across the edged ski" is subjective. I could easily argue that a pole plant before any turn will emphasize movement of the CM across the ski.

Anyway, I really think we are talking about the same ACTION when doing linked turns. Perhaps it helps some people to think of the pole plant as ending the turn, but in properly linked turns the end of one turn is the start of the next turn and it is difficult to argue with that.
post #40 of 51
My best tip came from Jean-Claude Killy, who said to develop "smart feet": sense how you are pressuring your skis by the pressures on your feet. I try to ski so that I am standing on my entire foot, which give better control than trying to water-ski on the back third of the ski.
post #41 of 51
When you say that you do a poleplant in each turn, do you carve the turns?
As soon as I am carving, on telemark or alpine-skis, I stop doing that.
post #42 of 51
First of all, welcome aboard.
See BobB's explaination. He mentions that you don't actually need the plant or touch as much as the swing/motion. I think you have found this out just by skiing. It's a good reminder/exercise but I also find that when I really start to get moving the motion of the arm/pole swing is all I need to release the edges and get on the new edge. As you reach out with that downhill/inside arm your CM will move across the skis.

I did find however that in the trees and in bumps even when I am carving the pole touch makes for very accurate turns in tight spaces.
post #43 of 51

Thanks for the comments. When thinking of the pole SWING followed by the eventual pole plant (or rather pole touch), I can see it being "the period at the end of a sentence", as opposed to the punctuation before the next sentence.

I too find that in most situations the smooth, rythmic swing of the pole is more important than the actual pole touch.
post #44 of 51

To answer your question: I actually do carve most turns. I also use very short carving skis which are much happier carving than skidding. But as dchan and Bob mentioned, when carving, the pole action is more of a pole swing than an actual plant. Is the pole swing necessary? Not really, but I like it and use it mostly for balance and rhythm.

Of course, when carving very long turns I don't use the poles at all (no swing, no touch, but the poles are ready for action if required).
post #45 of 51
Tom B
We are talking about the same part of the turn. The important part is the tip. The TIP "end your turn with a pole plant" emphasizes the body cross over. If you tell someone "end your turn with a pole plant" their body will cross over the edged ski.
If you tell someone "start your turn with a pole plant" their body may or may not cross over the edged ski.
post #46 of 51
Best thing I've learned: Surrender.

Be Braver in your body, or your luck will leave you. DH Lawrence
post #47 of 51
Best bit of information:

Exactly why a ski turns. Everything else just involves getting that one thing to happen.

post #48 of 51
I gotta agree with VK, the best thing i've learned so far is the correct way to fall. If you've got this engrained, you have more freedom to try new things all the time without worrying as much about injury. Falling correctly isn't just another move to add to your bag-of-tricks - it's a "fundamental".
post #49 of 51
yah, falling correctly (= mostly not fighting the fall, instead turning it into a controlled roll) is damned useful...and makes falling more fun, too.

other excellent tips i've heard:

- simplify: meaning, don't think so much. especially about the complex things your ankles and knees are doing.

- think from the upper body down, not from the feet up. with a calm upper body, & hands held pointing down the hill, the lower body follows without much conscious effort.
post #50 of 51
Dont follow Harpo!

but knowing "how to fall" comes in handy if you do
post #51 of 51
Got in on this discussion late, but thought I might add something I've not read in the other postings. The thing that's made the greatest difference for my skiing has been recognizing the importance of keeping the center of mass moving toward downhill. A popular clinic and exam phrase several years ago was "open the door to the future" that was applied primarily to things such as pole plant location, anticipation, crossover, etc., and I began thinking I should always be moving my CM into the future. The result, when I manage to keep it going, is much like the offensive approach to skiing described so well by Bob Barnes.
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