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Tipping - Page 2

post #31 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by tetonpwdrjunkie View Post

Tipping is up to the individual.  The fact is that all of the DECLs that I know could teach private lessons any day of the season if they chose to.  PSIA doesn't pay nearly as well as the SS and they have to pay for whatever travel, lodging, and meals that their stipend doesn't cover.  
 


If that's the casse, ten either your division doesn't  pay as well as the others, or I need to teach in your ski school.

post #32 of 45

I don't know exactly what the division pays.  I do know that all of the DECLs that I know personally do it to "give back" and say that they are losing money on the days they work for the division.  A top tier private instructor in my SS makes pretty good money.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by epic View Post




If that's the casse, ten either your division doesn't  pay as well as the others, or I need to teach in your ski school.



 

post #33 of 45

With foreigners, just remember

 

- airfares can be $2500 in coach/ekonomy class. Add kids and +1 and 'ouch'.

 

- we can get low on USD towards the end of a holiday,

 

- our $ might be so low so n everything in the US is twice as much. That note migh be $10 for you, and be effectively $20 out of the holiday maker's pay packet;

 

- taxes. We're paying $12 a gallon for gas, $15 for 20 cigarettes, and heaps more for everything. I can get a condo at Heavenly for the same price as a decrepit bunk bed in a dorm ski club lodge.

 

- oh, and we learrn American customs from watching re-runs of the Brady Bunch. I won;t tell you how Alice tipped Sam the Butcher :)

 

I paid for a Squaw Adventure Session to see more of the mountain ..and was stuck with a class. No tip, though it really wasn't the instructors fault we were pooled with a class.

 

Went with the Masters, and it was terrific. Tip for 3 coaches, and made sure all 3 got the one note

 

Bought a family I know a day class/tour at Heavenly to try powder (which we aren't used to). We were shown trees, cornices and stuff we'd never try on our own in pow. $100 tip was cheap for the experience.

 

Bought a ski guide/realtor at Squaw some beers and dinner. Next day we were taken to  Smoothies Run which rarely opens.

 

Shouted guides at Alpine Meadows a family bbq with t-bones, wine etc. Three families joined us. Next day a swag of 2-for-1 Alpine vouchers turned up, and Squaw passhholders headed over there for the ffirst time. Was taken through areas I'd get lost in. Amazing day.

 

I figure tipping depends on the experience, but lots of people are tight as a fish's.

 

I also figure people don't know instructors are paid per lesson, not for an 8 hour day. Maybe they'd pay more if they knew that.

post #34 of 45

my feeling on tips are: min. $5 max is the sky.  after 20+ years of teacher/coaching some people just have the talant to generate tips and it's not material that is being deliver but how they deliver that material.  So the customer/guest might not get good information but it was deliver very well.  they get tipped.  the customer gets great information but didn't connect with that person they get the goose egg.  So it more with the connection than the transfer of good information is my feelings.

 

I have one question to ask the instructor world out there.  Does one area of this skiing world get more tips than another?  ie east compared to the rockys.

  

post #35 of 45

Definatley....it comes down to clientelle I think.  Dad who works 50 hours a week to provide for his family and manages to get the kids in ski school at the local hill, just doesnt have the means to tip like "Paa-pa" who has a trust fund and flies the family out to Deer Valley for the weekend in the Lear Jet.

 

Places like Deer Valley are known in ski school ranks for the tip stories.  Mt. Littlemore in New York....not so much.

post #36 of 45



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by veteran View Post

 I also figure people don't know instructors are paid per lesson, not for an 8 hour day. Maybe they'd pay more if they knew that.



icon14.gif  Exacltey.  If the public knew how much instructors got paid, and how they are paid....AND if the public was educated on Certification Levels....we would be making alot more.  Not just from tips per se, but people would start demanding higher Certs....Supply/Demand etc.  I think it is bull how much effort and skill development is required to get a $0.25/hr raise.

 

post #37 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidude72 View Post



 



icon14.gif   .  I think it is bull how much effort and skill development is required to get a $0.25/hr raise.

 


I think mangment might get a better idea this coming season if the # of instructor decline due to the cost of just getting to the Mt. and the number of lesson given by the SS remind the same or increase. 
 

 

post #38 of 45

I don't see that happening this year. We did see a good bit of that the first time gas went over $3, but good snow years offset that. Every time we get a good season, we get plenty of new recruits the following season. Now, when prices go up and we have a bad season, that's when management gets worried. The last time when gas went up, management did do an across the board school staff (may have been resort wide) increase. I can't remember how much it was, but it was under 50 cents/hour and therefore not enough to offset travel cost increases to part time school staff. The stated reason was to offer wages competitive with "McDonalds" to get the local kids interested.

post #39 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidude72 View Post

Originally Posted by veteran View Post



 I also figure people don't know instructors are paid per lesson, not for an 8 hour day. Maybe they'd pay more if they knew that.





icon14.gif  Exacltey.  If the public knew how much instructors got paid, and how they are paid....AND if the public was educated on Certification Levels....we would be making alot more.  Not just from tips per se, but people would start demanding higher Certs....Supply/Demand etc.  I think it is bull how much effort and skill development is required to get a $0.25/hr raise.

 


How much of a raise should it be worth?

 

post #40 of 45

Well in Whistler, it varies because of the commission based system....

 

But as a rought guide the top guys are on about $30/hr.  The bottom guys are on about $10.  So if we cut that into quarters then each level should net you a raise of about $7.  I still think that is low, but reasonable given the current ski culture and wages, market points etc.

 

Eventually I would like to see North America adopting a European model where the ski school only really gets a booking fee, and the bulk of the lesson money goes to the instructor. 

 

Otherwise good pros wont be teaching, as they need a "day job'.  The public recieves a lower quality experience, hence they dont come back, and the whole industry suffers.  Paying ski instructors well, so the good ones stick around, so the public gets a better experience, so more people ski is a good investment for the industry..

 

I statistic I always find intersting is...in Whistler they take stats of everything....that shows that people who take a lesson at Whistler while there, overwhelmingly rate their overall experience higher then those who dont.  These are the people who come back year after year.

post #41 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidude72 View Post

 

Eventually I would like to see North America adopting a European model where the ski school only really gets a booking fee, and the bulk of the lesson money goes to the instructor. 

 

Otherwise good pros wont be teaching, as they need a "day job'.  The public recieves a lower quality experience, hence they dont come back, and the whole industry suffers.  Paying ski instructors well, so the good ones stick around, so the public gets a better experience, so more people ski is a good investment for the industry..

 

 


Boy I wish The INDUSTRY would get what you just stated.   Because the better you get (skiing or riding) the better it gets, to rob a phase from Perfect Turn.
 

 

post #42 of 45

Isn't it time to stand up and fight for a decent wage instead of relying on tips.

 

The Swiss, French and the Japanese never expect a tip from their clients.

post #43 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by wildcat hank View Post

Boy I wish The INDUSTRY would get what you just stated.   Because the better you get (skiing or riding) the better it gets, to rob a phase from Perfect Turn.

 

 

Read up on the NSAA Model for Growth. The industry gets it. The problem is how to get from here to there.
 

 

post #44 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidude72 View Post

I statistic I always find intersting is...in Whistler they take stats of everything....that shows that people who take a lesson at Whistler while there, overwhelmingly rate their overall experience higher then those who dont.  These are the people who come back year after year.


PSIA has verified that statistic as well. Skiers who take lessons rate their skiing experience more positively and ski more days per season.

 

post #45 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidude72 View Post

Well in Whistler, it varies because of the commission based system....

 

But as a rought guide the top guys are on about $30/hr.  The bottom guys are on about $10.  So if we cut that into quarters then each level should net you a raise of about $7.  I still think that is low, but reasonable given the current ski culture and wages, market points etc.

 

I don't know if it is true in Canada, but in the US there is significant wage difference between East and West and between big resorts and small resorts. The last I saw for top tier Western US resorts, the starting pay for L3 certs was around $20.  Most resorts also offer "experience" pay (i.e. raises every year). I'd bet that the 30$/hr top pay includes both cert and experience. FWIW

 

Interestingly enough, at my tiny little podunk resort in the Washington DC area it's possible for anyone to significantly exceed this pay rate (before tips) simply by teaching private requests. Over the years, I've seen a few pros achieve 80% of lessons taught as private requests.

 

Currently the industry rewards pros for private requests far more than it rewards for certification. I wonder what the reaction would be if the "extra" pay for private requests was rerouted to "certification" pay?
 

 

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