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WorldCup Din Settings

post #1 of 26
Thread Starter 
Want to know the common din settings used in WorldCup -

DH
SG
GS
SL

My concern is the boot moving in the binding when trying to carve a race turn- I don't want any movement -

Using Free Flex 17 and 14 bindings -

Currently using 10 toe and heel and I suspect the boot is sliding sideways in the binding when trying to make the race turn -

Just tell what the WorldCup racers are using and I'll take from there - 
 
post #2 of 26
 get different bindings. Looks dont move like tyrolias.
post #3 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post

 get different bindings. Looks dont move like tyrolias.

or jsut turn it up till it stops moving.
post #4 of 26
11  make it go to 11
post #5 of 26
Get a set of Marker 3000 Comp bindings, crank them all the way up, and go straight.
post #6 of 26
Thread Starter 
 Atomic's X-Race binding has a din of 12-20 - used on their Slalom and GS D2 Ski's -

The Downhill/SG Ski uses the Race binding with a din of 10-20 -

This provides me with some idea of what they may be using - din wise
post #7 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Johnson View Post

 Atomic's X-Race binding has a din of 12-20 - used on their Slalom and GS D2 Ski's -

The Downhill/SG Ski uses the Race binding with a din of 10-20 -

This provides me with some idea of what they may be using - din wise

Let's put it this way - if you needed those kinds of DIN settings you would already know what they were and wouldn't have to ask.
post #8 of 26
I tend to agree with Heluvaskier above...

But, if your boot is moving around in the binding when you turn, then DIN is the least of your worries. If it sliding around loose, then you have obvious forward-pressure or toe-height issues. If you are worried about moving by pushing against the spring tension, well, I guess crank the DIN's, but that really shouldn't be happening. Trying to put your DINs where Cuche puts them isn't going to do you any favors though, and you would need to bolt a few of those bindings together to get DINs like that.

To address your question - you cannot reach WC dins with those bindings. Make sure the forward pressure is good, crank them, and you should be fine (unless you are, in fact, on the world cup).
post #9 of 26
Check to see if there is play in the track. Seen many Tyrolias develop slop within the system.
post #10 of 26
 I've always been curious as well.

That said, DIN for your ability and size, not Bode's.
post #11 of 26
I haven't noticed any problems on my Tyrolia FF17 +, nor on my old all-metal Tyrolia 490s, even at low DINS.
Check your forward pressure, have you bindings and boots checked out.  It sounds like there is something not quit right. Loose screws? Funky boots?  Maybe the boot isn't moving, but your foot is.

I disagree with Heluva, in that you might need higher DINs and not know what they should be if you are skiing at DH speeds on rough terrain.  Maybe you shouldn't be doing that, but that's another thread.

For what it's worth, when I used to ski fast in areas where a fall at speed would most likely be my last, I had settled on my "chart" number + 4, based on how hard it was to step out of the bindings (a lost art).  I now ski at 8 which is a III+ on the charts. 
post #12 of 26

The proper DIN setting shouldn't permit movement in a binding. As was mentioned above poor boot/binding interface, a broken binding, incorrect forward pressure, loose screws and who knows what else are probably the source of slop.

post #13 of 26
From my understanding from a top Atomic Race Rep. that I spoke to many times when my boys were sponsored by Atomic, all the Atomic athletes still use the Atomic Race 10.18 and no one is set higher then 16 on the World ccup.

It is the  exact same binidng you and I can own (in fact I have about 6 pair in the garage right now!)

From my experience (and i ski on 3 pair of FF17+) they have been absolutely bullet proof. BSL of 313mm. I am 6'0 190 ski on a Din  of 10 and never release. Pre or otherwise. I trained GS & slalom all season and did some freeskiing SG/DH training.

A pre-release problem is either binding is set-up  wrong, (Not the release tension but the forward pressure) or sorry to say it is the pilot.

If you lose the pressure on your outside ski in the wrong part of the turn racing, ain't no binding on earth is going to keep the ski on your foot!

I would suggest the OP and everone else with their screwdriver out read this from Vermont Safety Research before they crank their bindings into the stratosphere!  If you are still coming out when you shouldn't by all means crank 'em up or take a lesson!

http://www.vermontskisafety.com/vsrfaq8.php

But I found the underlined portion below extrememly interesting and in direct conflict with popular opinion as stated above!

And I quote:

"The RATCHET Effect -- A good example of the rush to readjust is what we call the Ratchet Effect on the release adjustment screw of competition bindings. Race bindings are tightened for a variety of reasons (most of them wrong), but are rarely loosened.

All research efforts to date show that the magnitude of the load a skier applies to a modern binding toe piece decreases with speed (even during competition) and yet all problems of retention (inadvertent release) are blamed on the binding setting. "
Edited by Atomicman - 3/26/10 at 9:26am
post #14 of 26
Movement in a FF binding means either: your boots are worn, the bindings are not properly fitted to your boots, or your bindings are damaged and or loose at their attachment point on the plate, has nothing to do with the DIN, the DIN setting will decide to either release or not, not something in between.

Unless you want some serious injuries I wouldnt go cranking your DIN all the way up.....if you are experiencing pre-releases then thats a different story.
post #15 of 26
Pre-releases could result from problems that aren't related to DIN, especially if the boot is sloppy in the binding.
post #16 of 26
Thread Starter 
 Some people are mis-understanding me -

Binding works perfectly - forward pressure is fine - boots are new Head Edge 11/12 -

What I'm talking about  is the normal elastic movement of the boot in the binding - if in fact this is even happening - 


There is a normal amount of elastic movement in the binding before release - and putting torque on the ski in a turn has to put some pressure on it - An 8 din only takes 80 pounds of force to cause release -

If the heel or toe of the boot moves outward even a little in the binding when cranking a turn - this causes pressure on the top outside of the ski causing it to roll-over or flatten out -

and that is what I think is happening -

No amount of speed or turn force is going to cause the binding to release on a setting of 10 - the issue is the normal elastic movement built into the binding -


WorldCup skiers don't crank the din to prevent just release - they crank it to prevent any elastic movement more than needed and release - at least that is my view -
post #17 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Johnson View Post

Want to know the common din settings used in WorldCup -

DH
SG
GS
SL

(A) My concern is the boot moving in the binding when trying to carve a race turn- I don't want any movement -

Using Free Flex 17 and 14 bindings -

Currently using 10 toe and heel and I suspect the boot is sliding sideways in the binding when trying to make the race turn -

(B) Just tell what the WorldCup racers are using and I'll take from there - 
 

Ummmmm........................

(A) If you are skiing in a Head Edge boot then movement of the boot in the binding is not your only concern.

(B) World Cup skiers are not using Head Edge boots or anything remotely similar.

The movement of your foot within that cavernous boot is of far greater concern and is a far greater handicap in making that race turn than the relative strength of the boot binding coupling.

Unless of course you have a foot roughly the shape and size of a watermelon. If so, please disregard what I've said and continue to worry about your binding settings.

SJ
post #18 of 26
 You're skiing on Head Edge boots and you are worrying about the elasticity of the bindings?

Get into some Head Raptor RD 150 get them properly fitted then see if you have the same issues.  You're in the wrong boots for the level of skiing you are suggesting to be doing.
post #19 of 26
Your view that WC skiers crank the DIN to prevent elastic movement is incorrect.

I would be incredibly surprised if the binding elasticity is coming into effect in a turn. Tyrolia bindings don't have that much elasticity so the difference in force required between getting a bit off centre and releasing altogether is minimal. If you were using the elasticity a lot you would be pre-releasing a lot. I don't have the exact stats but the 5mm of elastic travel probably takes 90% of the release force. If you are frequently in the 10% gap between movement and release you would have to be doing something weird. 

If you are truly carving a turn there will be minimal torque on the binding. If you are putting 80 lbs of twisting in a turn you are doing something seriously wrong. Racers turn up the DIN to prevent pre-relese, not to improve int interface between the boot and the binding.
post #20 of 26

I watched Anja Paerson ski a WC GS, then just twist her ski off to get it up for the cameras.  No big effort, just a simple twist.

post #21 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Johnson View Post

boots are new Head Edge 11/12

*facepalm*

Question: what skis are you using for this "race turn"?
Edited by DtEW - 3/26/10 at 12:39am
post #22 of 26
As a regular user of Atomic 10-20s and Salomon 9-16s, I don't have any movement in the binding/boot interface even at low (11 - 13) DIN settings. These bindings are on race skis used in race courses.

Look somewhere besides DIN for a solution. How about some video of you skiing? Movements that put torque on foot/boot/binding/ski interface are pretty easy to spot.
post #23 of 26
the Atomic Binding is a Race 10.18 not 10-20 unless there is something i am unaware of.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MastersRacer View Post

As a regular user of Atomic 10-20s and Salomon 9-16s, I don't have any movement in the binding/boot interface even at low (11 - 13) DIN settings. These bindings are on race skis used in race courses.

Look somewhere besides DIN for a solution. How about some video of you skiing? Movements that put torque on foot/boot/binding/ski interface are pretty easy to spot.
post #24 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post

the Atomic Binding is a Race 10.18 not 10-20 unless there is something i am unaware of.

 



 

I use a friend's Atomics on my Fischer DHs; he likes to enhance his quiver of speed skis with my gear as he races speed more than me these days, but the skis are still MINE!

The Atomics make it easy to deal with his and my differing boot sole lengths. I never look at the high end of the scale, so you are probably right, they are 10-18s. I always have to move them down in DIN and up in BSL so the high end of the scale is inconsequential to me.
post #25 of 26
I hear ya! I love the 10.18 binding, closes like a bear trap and lotsa metal. The 6.14 has that goofy easy step-in feature that never feels like your lquite ocked in properly.

I ski the 10.18 on as low a setting as possible, which is 10.5 or 11. I just don't feel right about skiing it at 10 the lowest setting as it makes me think the spring could come off of the adjustment threads  and I coukld go flying somewhere unpleasant at the worng time (I know, I know this is all in my mind and is not based in reality)  But 99% of a bindings jobs is to boost your confidence!

Have you ever skied a binding that you were not sure was going to hold you in? Like when trading skis with someone knowing they are a set a couple of mm too big! Very unnerving and certainly not confidence inspiring!
post #26 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Johnson View Post

WorldCup skiers don't crank the din to prevent just release - they crank it to prevent any elastic movement more than needed and release - at least that is my view -
 

Your view is wrong.

Anyhow, with the exception of Marker, all manufacturers' high DIN race bindings are roughly in the 10-20 range. Salomon has two bindings in that range. The Marker 30.0 goes 15-30.
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