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In the YIKES Zone- Chapters 1-5

post #1 of 5
Thread Starter 
Here is another attempt at a "book discussion".

In The Yikes Zone

If you order the book through this link, Epic gets 15%.

The first section of the book is discussed in the thread: Anxiety, Fear, Terror-Yikes Introduction

Well, here goes...
Item #1 - Pg 24, second paragraph-"Do you approach skiing as performance or experience?"

It is interesting the "win/lose" scenerio. I seem to bounce back and forth between the two. As someone going for Level 3 next season, no matter how the training/testing is worded, it is a win/lose situation. I find that in some of the clinics, and when I am alone, the "experience" is stressed, and I find that I enjoy skiing more.

Is this "experience" something that the snowboarding world has over the skiing world? Do we skiers stress the get out of the intermediate rut too much? How many times do we as skiers stop and just watch the world go by? Enjoy the moment? MOre and more, I am stopping my group and looking at nature. Seems to slow all of us down to a relaxed stage.

Item #2 - Pg 33... The "guide" that is mentioned is giving us directions to follow, but I need to stop my "nag" from finishing the statement. If my hand is too low, the perfection in me wants to continue and say, you SHOULD be doing... When I feel the nag approaching, I try to get to the feelings in my feet. Feelings not judgement. If I had to tell stories about my students, the ones that I would remember would be the ones where the student was having fun. So do you ask yourself or your students if they have a guide or a nag? So, I guess it is important to know where the skier is coming from.

So, how did you react to these two sections?

I got more out of the next two chapters, but that is for later if this takes off.

[ June 19, 2002, 06:35 PM: Message edited by: KeeTov ]
post #2 of 5
KeeTov (finally managed to have a book delivered from the US & read a few chapters last weekend)

Like I said before - 'The Guide' (while I'm skiing) always has the voice & advice of my 2 current instructors. NOT all the technical stuff so much - but the 'How to get your head around this' stuff. One of my earlier instructors(funnily enough a catholic female) was just perpetuating the 'nag' bit - "Don't do that" "You SHOULDN'T worry about that - other people enjoy sliding" Also the Nag sounds a lot like my mother "Don't try to do what the others do - you know you can't & will get hurt" This just makes me MORE & MORE fearful.....

The guys on the otherhand are very different. I actually remember 'hearing' ones words when stressed. 'You have $10 worth of concentration - spend it wisely'. This helps me to focus on the TASK - not the problem.

I find that the BIGGEST plus from my current instructors is that they have ALL agreed(& maybe conspired - remember our industry isn't large) that I NEED to improve my perception of my ability. They have banned the 'C' word - they say it is not that I CAN'T do something - I just haven't LEARNED how YET! Their belief is becoming much more ingrained in my thinking. One keeps telling me "You're out here trying - that is ALL that matters"

I can see all this reflected in the 'Guide' vs 'Nag' bits.

Do I - or have I ever cared about the performance? Not likely - skiing & all other sports are FOR ME - & they are to be measured BY MY STANDARDS. The hard part is not being SUCKED in when others are HARSH about my skiing & UNLEARNING the 40+ years of experience that says I am just WAITING to get hurt trying any physical stuff. It is working though - the start of our season ALREADY sees a BIG change. We are ALL expectant & excited(damn I love my instructors!)

I do FIND it hard when I get instructors that want me to TELL them what I want from the lesson. "Just ski with me & tell me where my body is so we can both enjoy it" is a strange demand - but more often that not it is what I need from a new instructor. How do I explain that I see improvement as a life long goal - I don't NEED to ski at 'level x' or 'be able to do y'.
One instructor likes to make it a fun thing to ski - he'll often watch me ski down then zoom past me - I'll round some trees to find him lying in the snow in a goofy position. The other guy spends heaps of time telling me the next run will be HARDER - I must smile the whole time . Both of them spend time with me hunting for little birds & watching the clouds & looking at the light. I still learn - but the 'take time to enjoy' lesson is just as important.

The bit about getting the kid to fall - YEAH - go with that. I am so used to being hurt I was terrified to fall. One instructor measures his success in my number of falls(not in dangerous situations - just doing tricky stuff on terrain my skills should easily handle) He is happy if I have a few falls in a day or over a few days - he sees that as a measure that I am pushing myself close to the LIMIT of my ability. He insists I need to learn to do this if I am to LEARN to compensate for my disability enough to ski the terrain I want to ski(everywhere!).
post #3 of 5
Thread Starter 

Glad you finally got the book. I can see that attending a clinic with MB would be worth it.

You said..."You're out here trying - that is ALL that matters"... when I first read that I thought of the performance side of the performance/experience issue. I have been using something along the lines of..."As long as you're having fun...." to get to the experience side. Am I reading this right? Is this something that you would want to hear?

Falling.... at one ski school we were told never show the student how to fall, because if they then get hurt...law suit. I had a hard time overcoming my fear of snowboarding because of the fall factor. First, I could get hurt, and second, my pride! The way I overcame this was to laugh out loud each time I fell until it was okay/fun to fall. The roller coaster into and out of the Yikes Zone widened. Getting around the fear of falling, and the danger of lawsuits caused by falling is difficult for instructors. Any comments?

You also said, "I just haven't LEARNED how YET". I like this. Broaden the comfort zone. On page 35, paragraph 3, when "undifferentiated sensation blurred together like white noise",...I think we have all been there. Sensory overload or nothing in our history to relate to?

In another thread(maybe I'll start it in a few days), in Chapter 7, pg 54, last paragraph... there seems to be a fine line between performance/experience. So, at this stage of the book, disski, I think you say you don't need a goal(performance), but if you use the words "learned how yet", isn't that performance more than experience? Or do words get in the way again? For me, it is hard to separate the two if the experience I want to have means I have to perform at a certain level. MB.. HELP!!!! :
post #4 of 5
KeeTov - first the disclaimer - I am a shocker re being the biggest chicken you've ever seen - I'm just getting better & the methods that are being used seem to fit.

Re the haven't learned yet. Well it helps if you realise I have a personality that JUST revells in learning! I was once head of a dept - GOT BORED - & went back to uni to do a TOTALLY different degree - for fun! I'm the crazy sort who will NEVER be rich/successful etc on society's measures. I LOVE to learn though - If I won the lottery tomorrow I expect I could EASILY fill the next 50 years or so just LEARNING. (Note - learning - not memorising - I hate parrot fashion crap!) I fervently hope to still be learning at 95. So learning IS an experience for me. There is only 1 thing I enjoy more & we just won't go there will we

I can get a bit hard on myself though - that is why the boys are always on my case about QUITTING that sort of behaviour. (I'm sort of a weird combo - because if I gave a rats what anyone else thought I would NEVER do physical stuff - but I am hypersensitive to being ridiculed etc - Had stones thrown at me as a kid etc - HAD a gutful of people who do that stuff - try to hang with better level of persons that don't do the crap)

The too hard on myself bit is why the 'You're out here doing it' is the go. Often when he says it I feel I'm NOT having fun - I am angry with myself. The comment brings the REALITY of the situation back to me - so I can see it all as FUN again & savour the experience.
post #5 of 5

This is a knockoff of Timothy Gallwey's triangle model from The Inner Game of Work.

Performance is doing what you already do better. The REWARD is precision, safety, confidence, and achievement.

Learning is about what you don't know how to do. The REWARD is growth. Growth implies that this is an innate, intuitive capacity of all living things.

Satisfaction -- should read "experience" to be faithful to Gallwey. I would prefer the word fulfillment, which I would describe as "one religion with an infinite number of interpretations." The REWARD, however you describe it, is what keeps us coming back.

I think MB got inspiration for these chapters from Gallwey, and that performance, learning, and experience are all in play.

The Nag and the Guide are really profound: the inner child's inner voices. (My Mother/My Self. Nag/Guide is the inner child's version of the madonna-whore complex: the nurturer-bitch complex...) This is a strong clue that ski teaching hasn't even begun to approach its potential role in society as a route to greater self-knowledge, which opens the door to greater personal effectiveness in general.

I know, I know. I'm dreamin'!
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