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Making turns - Page 3

post #61 of 88
Thread Starter 

I don't get it. If you're talking about my skills, they're pretty. So pretty -- anywhere on the mountain.
post #62 of 88
pretty and SO pretty, sure, but are they REALLY, TRULY pretty? 'cause when you go from "so" pretty to "really, truly" pretty, THEN ya know yer turns are...kinda pretty.
post #63 of 88
I have not heard anything lately as to his progress, as per normal if someone is not on the edge of their demise than the media feel it is not worth reporting. Last thing i remember reading was that his injuries where no longer life threatening.
post #64 of 88
don't even get me started on The Wiz of Oz.

(right now i'm kinda seein' a bunch of Bears in a line approaching and entering Oz, then finding him (Harb) when the curtain is pulled back, with Harb in flux, not sure to keep at the controls (the smoke, the sound...) or draw back the curtain.)

The Great and Powerful Oz has spoken!!!!!!<FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by ryan (edited June 01, 2001).]</FONT>
post #65 of 88
Ok, I cannot stand it any longer:


PMTS or not, if you are truly on edge and carving nasty snow will be easier to negotiate.


I believe that Pierre eh! has some short shaped skis (T-Power Vipers?) that will run circles around the 190cm boats that SCSA is thinking of buying. In fact it does not matter who is on the 190cm skis, the shorties will blow them away in slalom turns.

Oops, my post comes after lots of answers have already arrived. Sorry about that, should have refreshed the thread before posting.<FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by TomB (edited June 01, 2001).]</FONT>
post #66 of 88
Some of this reminds me of that old line, "I can't wait for tomorrow because I get better looking every day."
post #67 of 88
Paul, I'm serious. Figure this out yourself. Think about what you were doing before, and what you are doing now. And how it felt before, and how it feels now.
You might say that I am "into" PMTS, as I have perused quite a bit of Harb's material from many different sources. I have also incorporated almost all of it into my skiing cornucopia of skills. All except the pressing the boots together. That one just doesn't seem to work for me. But please note that I also draw instruction from every source that I can. Also note that I am not a learning or practice junkie (nothing wrong with that)like you and alot of other people here. I just get the info and then do it.
post #68 of 88
Thread Starter 
Oh yes, Pierre. I just want to go out and have a good time.

No matter how much of a butt head I appear to be, I truly love hanging out with people like you - those that love skiing and have been around a while. It's all so damn fascinating!

I mean, there I am skiing with SnoKarver - the guy has been around forever. Then Rusty shows up, he's been around too and knows everybody. Rich Messer, John Clendenin, on and on. And of top of it all, I can call and wrap with HH anytime.

It's all just really groovy.
post #69 of 88
Paul, it would be best not to forget your meds tonight.
post #70 of 88

I think a lot of people here are wary of skiing with you or inviting you to any gathering, because you continue to phrase things in angry, childish, "I can blow the doors off you" (paraphrase, not a quote) ways. This isn't junior high school and we're not trying to see who can lay down the longest patch of rubber with his daddy's car.

And you continue to offend by making comments that some of the posters here, including my wife Lisamarie, have asked you to stop.

Not to play the overprotective controlling husband here (hey, she uses a DH Lawrence quote as a sigfile, I didn't marry Betty Crocker) but your "I was looking forward to seeing Lisamarie and Skiminkers.... beads" comment is over the top. You've been asked to stop making sexually agressive postings. You continue to do so. I'm tired of hearing Lisa yell from across the room "that *S##%^& did it again."

Now I'm telling you - <font color="red" size="+2">back off!</font> You're the big man? Then be a man, and show some respect.

You have every right to respond (civilly) to anybody's post including Lisa's - she's a big girl. But you don't have a right to continue to offend by implying familiarity which you don't have. You have very few friends here, and you haven't earned the right to engage in friendly banter as if you were close to the people posting.

In your new SCSA persona (strange, you keep having to identify with a system or concept rather than as an individual) you've perhaps just started to gain some respect for discussion on issues rather than on insults. Let that develop slowly, naturally, and perhaps people will begin to be friends, not just internet correspondents. But don't presume friendship which you are still a long way from earning.

This may be another aspect of your apparent inability to control your tendency to "stay within the lines" of reasonable discussion. For someone who has so totally bought-in to a "productized", systematic, follow rules 1-12" concept (PMTS as you describe it), you seem stunningly unable to follow some simple rules of civilized internet discourse.

You've made some interesting points about "productizing" ski lessons. I've got my own opinions about what works and doesn't from a marketing standpoint, and as a consumer. Hey, I almost agree with some of your points, at least for the entry-level to intermediate skiier. Productize it, give outstanding customer service and good (I don't care which "brand") instruction, don't treat your potential new client base like cattle.

But I hesitate to discuss any of that in a forum where you participate, because you will (history shows) just build up again to the 'I'm right you're all wrong and I can whip all your sorry butts' offputting "wacko" cult-like persona. Build up some history of being a decent contributor here first, and you may be surprised at the results.
post #71 of 88
Hey Wacko...I ain't no MENSA member, but I'd pay attention to the previous post!!
I reviewing this thread...hey, did someone mention "MAMBO"!!!!
One of the things that drew me into this chat place was the depth of historical perspective so many of you bring. Like Bob, one of the best experiences I ever had was meeting Hopplicher at the BSH in St. Christoph during National Academy. My dad taught with Ernie McCulluogh, who gave me my first signed "ski book" and I have been pissing off my wife collecting them ever since... I just eat this Sh*t up!
I can see the movies of Art Furrer Mamboing now!
OK, ok I'll get to the point. About 6 years ago in PSIA RM at Trainers Accred., they had all of us doing a variety of antique manuveres. A variety of stems...up stems, down stems, converging step, diverging step, parallel with pre-turn...and believe it or not, reverse shoulder intiations, and (yes) "down, up (and around) and down" We Wedeled, shortswang, speissed, vorlaged and Arlberged. We said HUP HUP HUP...just about everything but drank Gluhwein and yodeled. The hardest by far was the triple hop turns...from two footed through to outside foot only, then inside foot only (the long dormant MAMBO!) This transitioned in a single run, narrow corridor, in sets of like eight.

Point was, and is, when alot of young guns were challenged they were way locked into their predictable movement patterns and struggled to alter how their movements fired. It was also fun to ski through that technical evolution with people who didn't live it!
Hint: If you try the two foot, to outside foot, to inside foot successive short hop turns, when going from outside to inside, ya take off and land on the same foot once to transition. Goodnight Bears.<FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by Robin (edited June 01, 2001).]</FONT>
post #72 of 88
Robin: too bad Todd M. has not been posting. He has this amazing collection of ski books. You guys could compare notes.
In Bormio Italy this year they tried {unsucessfully} to teach me boot buckle locked stance, heel slides and reverse shoulder maneuvers. Ott and Bob Barnes found that amazing. Natalie Terry age 75, one of the most popular instructors at Sugarloaf, thinks that was probably the most valuable lesson in the history of skiing one can get.
Now, a question.
What the heck is a mambo turn????
Sounds like something I'd like!

Be Braver in your body, or your luck will leave you. DH Lawrence
post #73 of 88
In case you want to check out the Gravity library
Hopefully he will be back soon.
post #74 of 88
near the middle of this thread is Ott's description of the mambo..
And I think it will be in the next edition of the BobB encyclopedia<FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by dchan (edited June 01, 2001).]</FONT>
post #75 of 88
Dchan, I belive we talked about the Mambo in another thread, this one was about wedeln...

post #76 of 88
PMTS is dead - long live the Mambo!

Lisamarie, here's how I described it in a post ( ) almost a year ago:

"Stein Eriksen used to do this very showy move in old ski movies. It's a split rotation deal where the turn is started with exaggerated rotation of the arms and shoulders. Then, halfway through the turn, you counter-rotate in the same manner. This becomes the rotation move for the beginning of the next turn. There's very little, if any, unweighting involved. It's not very functional, but it's great fun (on easy trails), and it draws a lot of strange looks!"

Ott may (or may not) want to expand on this description. As Ott has said, it must always/only be done in full view of the chairlift!

BE the skis!

<FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by Tominator (edited June 02, 2001).]</FONT>
post #77 of 88
Mamboing in U shaped gullies is pretty hilarious. S'pose you could mambo the half pipe and call it "ancient school".
post #78 of 88
Boy, I must be fogged...what I described above was the Charleston! Sorry for the confusion...what am I thinking...weekends do this to me!
post #79 of 88
you are probably right. I just knew that you mentioned it in this thread too. I forgot to expand my search to the general ski subject. ..or the thread got deleted somewhere along the way. I do remember someone asking if BobB was going to put it in his new book too.<FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by dchan (edited June 02, 2001).]</FONT>
post #80 of 88
Pierre, not the thread from last Summer, one of about two or three month ago where Bob Barnes promised to put the "Mambo" in the next edition of his book...Bob and I just found this forum last September.

post #81 of 88
Bob, I'm going to let it drop after this, but the thread I'm refering to had someone request that you include the mambo in the next edition of your book, and you agreed.

In the thread you linked me to you didn't take part at all.

The FESTOP, a French word for "butt stop", refers to the setup for a rebound initiation to a turn.

It is done, and involves all these actions:

>>>A quick sinking of the countered body with angulation with a heel-check (pushing the tails of the skis downhill and setting the edges hard) and simultanious pole plant of the downhill pole.<<<

The result is a rebound unweighting, if the rebound is not absorbed with the knees, and straightening of the body to neutral and an edge change to commence the downhill turn.

In essence the Festop is a hard check with the tails of the skis instead of the full edges, with a pole plant and lots of angualtion, used to initiate a downhill turn, or if the rebound is absorbed, a coming to a stop across the hill.

post #82 of 88
Bob B. Someone is asking about your book on skilovers.
post #83 of 88
Jeez - maybe I should have chosen, "MamboKing," as my UserName rather than, "Tominator!"

Anyway, I can't find the thread either - it WAS just about 3 months ago (because that's when I got the book) - but I complimented Bob Barnes on the excellence of his book, while mentioning that he had left out the Mambo Turn. Ott then volunteered that he would keep after Bob to make sure he included it in his next edition. I'm glad to see that Bob has formally agreed to right this wrong! (Now, Bob, I suppose including XSCHUSS is out of the question? Oh well!)

DChan - by the way, I grew up in Newton, MA!<FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by Tominator (edited June 04, 2001).]</FONT>
post #84 of 88
Since reference to Bob Barnes book "Complete Encyclopedia of Skiing 3rd Edition" has come up I thought I would take this time to say that last week I received my copy from
While flipping through some of its pages
I came accoss the following statement on page 218:

"ninety-nine percent of skiers, in my opinion, simply practice mistakes...If these skiers yearn for true expertise, they must make sure they practice what those experts are practicing. Instead, they practice only gross defensive efforts and that is exactly what they get good at."

This is one of the most accurate observations I have ever read about skiing and I must admit it includes my own skiing in too many ways.
"The Encyclopedia of Skiing" is the best book I've come accross about skiing in quite a whileand will help to get me through the long hot summer. I would also like to express my respect for the author who has shown such a willingness to share his knowlege in this forum.

<FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by Lostboy (edited June 04, 2001).]</FONT>
post #85 of 88
Bob B- I've got to add my praise and thanks to you as well. You spend a great deal of time here and all of us benefit from your expertise, as well as your ability to write in a lucid manner. I've been gone for a while sans computer and was catching up during the past few days.There is a great deal of info that can be gleaned at this site and you are one of the main benefactors. Thanks.
post #86 of 88
Bob, what Rusty said... ...Ott
post #87 of 88
Hear! Hear! Now if we could get Milt and Dogger on this forum..!?! Kinda like an Edwin Terrel clinic online! Bob, I concur with the section at the beginning of your book about has become the rosetta stone of my training regime. Speaking a common language is a must!<FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by Robin (edited June 05, 2001).]</FONT>
post #88 of 88
Bob -

XSCHUSS: Xtreme South Carolina Heavenly Unification Skiing System.

It was very popular in the 5th month of the 21st century but has since fallen into obscurity!

BE the skis!
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