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Demonstration of a Right Hand Turn, what do you see?

post #1 of 17
Thread Starter 
post #2 of 17
Cool visual Dr. G. A picture is worth a thousand words!

What do I see? I see a fairly typical sequence of pressure and edge movements. I see a skier a little too outside-ski focused, probably. If I'm reading your graphics accurately, there is a weight transfer BEFORE any edge engagement, which would require a movement of the body to the left, toward the outside of the turn--what I call a "negative movement." And I see a tipping of the outside ski before the inside ski.

What I would work on with this skier (!) would be a movement in the direction of the turn--to the right--to initiate the turn. This movement should originate down low, with the inside (right) foot, both rolling toward its right ("little toe") edge and (probably) steering the tip to the right.

I wish I could figure out now how to adjust your dials to show what I just described....

Best regards,
Bob Barnes
post #3 of 17
Way cool.

Thanks Dr Go, (did I create a monster?)
I'm still working on the dials to figure out what I'm seeing.
post #4 of 17
Is it me or should the dials read less/more for pressure instead of left/right

and for the angle should it also be less/greater angle instead of left/right

The second one (edge) at first made me think I was supposed to be on my left edges but I can't think how I'm going to make a right turn standing on the left edges.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ November 18, 2001 06:11 PM: Message edited 1 time, by dchan ]</font>
post #5 of 17
I was wondering about that too, Dchan. "Less>>>More" is what I see for the pressure dials, regardless of what it says. And I'm seeing the "edge angle" dials simply as graphically illustrating the tilt of the skis.

I think Dr. Go has some sort of a trick up his sleeve. It's probably some new kind of psychological ink blot test that will reveal our inner longings....


Best regards,
Bob Barnes
post #6 of 17
Looks like the Tennessee Two-step to me, Go-Man. Lacks a little patience also. I'd agree with Bob that your dials depict a set of skier movements of middling skills.
post #7 of 17
"a little too outside ski focused..."
The last two racing pics i´ve seen are in this month´s issue of Powder mag.
Both Eric Schlopy and Daron Rahlves are at the apex of a GS turn.
Both have the inside ski off the snow,no weigth at all.
I´m not against New style-technique,but i do believe that we are getting a bit carried away.Trying to be more avant garde than top WCUP racers will get us nowhere IMHO.
I watch WCUP races in video (GS) and i swear i still see:
-Outside ski dominance
-Inside ski tip-lead,on some side shots you can clearly see the inside ski one boot lenght ahead.
-Hip-torso countering+angulation,go to www.skiracing.com,PLUS section "France´s Covili...",the Bode Miller pic speaks for itself...
-Up unweighting:I know it´s sin,but believe me they still do it quite often!

All the above is generally treated in this forum as old,inefficient,dumb or worse.My problem is that i still see this fundamentals winning races,though they seem less obvious.Am i going blind!!!!?
This year i´m gonna get 84 days MINIMUM on the slopes,not teaching,not working just plain glorious FREE skiing and snowboarding.YES!!!!!!
post #8 of 17
The link came out wrong,it´s www.skiracing.com then look in Plus section ...
post #9 of 17
Thread Starter 
Bob and dchan, you are right I do need to change the dial read outs to more or less pressure it is not correct the way it is now. Thanks.
Are there any other indicators that you would like to see?
If we were using something like this for a training tool what would you like to see?
post #10 of 17
MC--there is nothing wrong with your eyes!

But where do you get the idea that there is general disagreement on the importance of fundamentals here in the forum? There is SOME disagreement, but most of the instructors, at least, have been emphasizing fundamentals and versatility for quite some time.

Frankly, I see the pendulum returning, as it usually does, to middle ground. Skiers, instructors, and racers have gone to extremes to learn how to exploit the capabilities of the new equipment. But that done, we are learning how to integrate these capabilities into the spectrum of skiing movements and skills--new and old.

Best regards,
Bob Barnes
post #11 of 17
Dr. Go--I played around a little (way too late) last night and created a new version of your .gif dials. I don't know how to post my version, but I'd be glad to e-mail it to you. Drop me a Private Message!

Best regards,
Bob Barnes
post #12 of 17
Can't figure out how the next turn is going to happen w/ equal pressure on both legs at the bottom the the turn. Seems like The initiation is correct but I personally do not ski as two footed as the dials indicate above.

Am I on the right track?
post #13 of 17
Good visual for L-1 thru 3.

How I verbalize this is telling them to "look left, look right, look left" and this just about illustrates the mechanics of the edge & pressure when they are doing this.
post #14 of 17

Taking the start of the dials as the start of the turn being close to the fall line.

I see a cross fall line maneuver on a medium pitch slope moving to a two footed edge set setting up for a rebound entry to the next turn. (speese)


Taking the start of the dials as the start of the turn being across the fall line.

A medium radius carve turn standing against the skis as they recross the fall line.

I have been out of the game for the “carve ski” revolution so I have missed the “new technique” debate as a serious participant. I have been reading up profusely and free skiing on Salomon Super Axed 10 Pilots so I have stayed with the “scene” but only in a totally free ski capacity. It has been great for my technique\balance\style to throw off the “instructor mould” for a few years.

Feel free to shoot me down in my observations. I am on an “everything is new again” learning curve and greatly appreciate the ES “think tank”.

In reading the ES posts I have to agree with the “middle ground” approach to technique.

Oz [img]smile.gif[/img]
post #15 of 17
mc: I think Bob's comments were related to the beginning of the turn indicated by the dials. You're looking at the middle of the turn. I'll bet if you watch the racers throughout the course, you'll see the inside ski off the snow in the middle of the turn about as often as not (50-50) to help keep the outside ski carving at that point. The inside ski will be on the snow before the end of the turn, though, and very few of us reach the kind of g-force carving circumstances those racers get to. Most of us couldn't hold ourselves up with one leg at their speeds and g's.

The real problem as far as instruction goes is if the skier decides to MAKE the weight transfer to the outside ski by picking up the inside ski rather than aiding the weight transfer through that move. Picking up to transfer makes weight application to the stance ski a passive move.
post #16 of 17
The whole dials thing just doesn't work for me.
post #17 of 17
Thread Starter 
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SCSA:
The whole dials thing just doesn't work for me.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Any suggestions?
The challenge is that in using discriptive words we can not be as graphic, (well some of us) as a pictoral demonstration.
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EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › Ski Training and Pro Forums › Ski Instruction & Coaching › Demonstration of a Right Hand Turn, what do you see?