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Rockered Ski Revolution in Question? - Page 3

post #61 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgcatching View Post


No real reason to be dogmatic about ski design.  Most climbers I know don't get too worked up about whether Bosch or Hilti makes the better hammer drill; they just want to get the bolts sunk and the climb put up.  Skis are just tools, and if you can't ski, it doesn't matter what is on your feet.   I say buy what works for you! 

Dawg, love your posts...but clearly you've never been involved in a lengthy tool discussion? Yes, people actually do get somewhat worked up about the brand of hammer drill they use. Especially when one costs a lot more.
Anyway, fine discussion here, carry on.

Hey Ghost and Newf. Would you say that the so called "shaped ski" is no longer a fad? Just trying to establish some ground rules here for how long something needs to be accepted.

I'm not sure how deep your involvement goes in that uber secret black ops group where one only uses Super G skis or maybe downhills, and the lower ranking members use 205 gs skis.

(I realize you can neither confirm nor deny your involvement, but maybe throw us a bone??)
post #62 of 78
Newf and Ghost, could you two elaborate on which rockered skis you have been on, what conditions, and what you felt while skiing them? 
post #63 of 78
Well I've only skied a few, but what I've seen didn't impress me that much.  I skied the rockered Gotama.  They took a real all mountain ski and downgraded it to something I don't much trust running flat and straight.  I wouldn't trade it for an old Gotama.

I skied the Atomic Big Daddy. again in both versions.  I own the old one, and found the rocker to be a bit easier to get around, especially at slow speeds, but that ski was already so easy in powder that it hardly seems worth it.  Both versions just plain suck out of the powder, the rocker even worse than the old model.  Add to that the fact that I found my Big Daddy's new on ebay for $130 while the new  rockered ones are $500, and I'd say we are not looking at progress.  Sure, unlike the Goats, I'd trade the old for a new, but not at those prices.

It looks to me that the main purpose of the rocker is to convince people that their perfectly good skis are obsolete, and that they should run out and get something new.  This is a great time to find deals on new old stock skis, while others chase the latest trend.  I'll only have as much fun as people had last year..

Interesting that people who sell skis for a living are more enthused about the things than the average user.  Cudos to Sierra Jim, for his honest reviews of the new Gotama.
post #64 of 78
There's definitely a skier skill element to all this.  Some skiers have very good release movements and don't depend on an "up move" to transition between turns.  These skiers don't benefit as much from the rockered designs  when skiing chop and crud.  Personally, I have yet to ski anything rockered on a deep day, but there's too much evidence to deny that they are a fantastic tool for those conditions.

Rockered skis are definitely an excellent new tool to add to the quiver, but I wonder what their impact will be on skiers' skiing skills over time.  With the push to bring toned down rockered designs to the masses, intermediate skiers will be "rewarded" for their poor skiing movements (pivoting and skidding with less edge catching) and never experience the thrill of a true high energy carved turn on a traditionally cambered ski.  The divide between good ski racing technique and what the average skier does on the hill will grow ever wider.

It amazes me that even in CO I rarely see good skiers on the mountain making good technical turns.  There's lots of guys sporting rockered skis these days, but very few that have skiing skills that I admire.  Will rockered skis allow too much "cheating"?  Or is this just the future of skiing?
post #65 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by newfydog View Post

Well I've only skied a few, but what I've seen didn't impress me that much.  I skied the rockered Gotama.  They took a real all mountain ski and downgraded it to something I don't much trust running flat and straight.  I wouldn't trade it for an old Gotama.

 Add to that the fact that I found my Big Daddy's new on ebay for $130 while the new  rockered ones are $500, and I'd say we are not looking at progress.  Sure, unlike the Goats, I'd trade the old for a new, but not at those prices.

Interesting that people who sell skis for a living are more enthused about the things than the average user.  Cudos to Sierra Jim, for his honest reviews of the new Gotama.
So you have tried 2 'rockered skis' and you feel that one pair (a 106mm wide reverse camber ski) isn't a good all-mountain ski... and the other pair you dislike because the eBay price is too high????  

That's about what I expected to hear from you.
post #66 of 78
i thought the thread was pretty much done after these two posts. 

Head=frontside groomers. 
Head= "Not cool".    

True or not, that's the perception. (truth is the make great skis but not my tastes for off-piste)

Quote:
Originally Posted by apeyros View Post

Answering to your question Bob. Because  Head freeride skis - teh suck. Sorry but true. -)) Just look at what the most popular freeride skis are - PMGear, DPS, Moment, ON3P, Volkls somehow. You would hardly see someone who is more interested in Cassiars than in the Lotus 120/138 (unless this guy is looking for a super lightweight touring rig).

When I say Head I think mid-fats/slalom skis and that's about it.

P.S.: for me personally rocker is a true revelation, I absolutely love fat moderately stiff long boards with tip rocker just because I don't like short bouncy old school turns in the off-piste. I prefer GS'ish arcs! -))




Quote:
Originally Posted by ecimmortal View Post

As was already mentioned. Most people looking at rockered ski's aren't looking at Head. As well as the majority of this forums residents being east coasters.
post #67 of 78
Hehe.   Done?   It's never done.



Anyone designed asymmetrical rocker yet (e.g. higher laterally than medially)? 

Just think of the market for new tuning tools too...
post #68 of 78
calling Alpinord????
post #69 of 78
He, he!

Funny, I was BSing with a ski tech friend about putting my Legends in their ski press and experimenting with customizing a rockered tip just for grins. I'll get back to you on that if it ever happens......and comprex's hybrid-rockered tip idea and tuning issues. It might take a while.
post #70 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom View Post



and the other pair you dislike because the eBay price is too high????  

That's about what I expected to hear from you.

 

And you think we should ditch our quivers, and spend four times more  for  a minor  improvement in powder performance.  That's about what I'd expect from a guy who posts here with his retail business linked to every post.


Quote: Dawgcatching
Newf. Would you say that the so called "shaped ski" is no longer a fad?
 

Again, about what I'd expect from someone trying to sell skis.  Your strawman is taking a terrible beating here, If you've read my posts in the past, you'd see that I'm a big fan of modern sidecuts.  I've also contended that camber has little to do with grip.

Interesting how voicing the mere  opinion that the rockers will not be more than 50% of the market brings out wrath from the guys with the inventories to move.
post #71 of 78
I raced on an early rise DH ski this weekend. Wow, did it just make things so much easier.










(one tip is slightly bent from a loan of the ski to my bro)
post #72 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by newfydog View Post

And you think we should ditch our quivers, and spend four times more  for  a minor  improvement in powder performance.  That's about what I'd expect from a guy who posts here with his retail business linked to every post.


 
find where I have said that rocker is a new paradigm.

find a post where I try to hawk gear for sale.

refrain from telling me what I 'think', ok?
post #73 of 78
 I ran into a icy lip yesterday so now my skis have front rocker,does that count?
post #74 of 78
I'm curious about rockers but realize they're probably not in my future.
Wish I could find a mountain where I needed a rocker!

My past two years with 7 different trips to the West spread over parts of four months I've skied about 31 days and had a few inches of fresh snow on a few days. This year in 16 days of skiing the most in 24 hours was a slow night and day accumulation of about 4 inches in 24 hours. Last year I think there was one 24 hours period with 6 inches. I know there are exceptions with some of you "go anywhere hard chargers" but packed or settled snow that's softened and re-hardened is the norm on most days for most of us.

I noted earlier that the only thing in some stores in Big Sky is the long wide stiff Big Mountain stuff. I don't know if that's because the middle of the road stuff already sold or if the big stuff is the only thing that's selling. Most of the skis for sale there did not match the snow conditions I've seen the past two years.

I think you've got to live in or near the mountains to be able to pick your days to use a big fat rocker. For the majority of us they're just another big heavy plank to lug to the airport that will probably not be used.
post #75 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom View Post



So you have tried 2 'rockered skis' and you feel that one pair (a 106mm wide reverse camber ski) isn't a good all-mountain ski... and the other pair you dislike because the eBay price is too high????  

That's about what I expected to hear from you.
 

well to be fair the gotama does suck ;) but yeah newfy sounds like a stick in the mud.

newfy would you buy rockered Fisher GS skis if team fisher start to use it and win WC on it?

BTW this is already in the works fishers has some 'interestiong" camber/flex profiles they have been testing on SL and GS skis.
post #76 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post


newfy would you buy rockered Fisher GS skis if team fisher start to use it and win WC on it?

BTW this is already in the works fishers has some 'interestiong" camber/flex profiles they have been testing on SL and GS skis.


 

Sure, if I tried the skis myself and liked them (even though there is no "team Fischer" on the World Cup).  Based on what I've seen rocker did to the Gotama, I would bet against that happening, but I've been wrong before. I really doubted I'd like a 165 cm sl ski, and they became a favorite toy.

 Even then, I'd wait a year or two until I could get them cheap, just to tell Whiteroom about it.
post #77 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by newfydog View Post




Sure, if I tried the skis myself and liked them (even though there is no "team Fischer" on the World Cup).  Based on what I've seen rocker did to the Gotama, I would bet against that happening, but I've been wrong before. I really doubted I'd like a 165 cm sl ski, and they became a favorite toy.

 Even then, I'd wait a year or two until I could get them cheap, just to tell Whiteroom about it.

well ok there is no team fisher but fisher atheletes was just more words.

Try the katana its WAY better that the ski with no tail aka the gotama.
post #78 of 78
I hit my "favorites" button for Epic and got re-routed to a TGR thread

Anyway, it's snowing in Denver and I think I'll skate out to use my new slightly rockered skis tomorrow!
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