Thanks for the responses! Some questions and thoughts...
If your avoiding rotary movements how do expect to make anything but pure carved turns?
Exactly--That's the point! I'm not looking for a skidded or brushed turn right now. The alternative to skidded or brushed is a carved turn. (Excluding wedging or sideslipping, which isn't clean high level skiing.) Plus a carve feels a lot nicer than a nasty chatter or slide down ice.
unweighting never has to take place unless the snow is sticky and/or you need to use a pivot entry. Pivot entries are pretty useful in the right context but there is no reason to be using either a unweighting move or a pivot on ice except in racing and extremely steep situations
In CSIA demos (and probably PSIA as well) there's a perceptible up-unweight to initiate turns. This seems to happen in even "dynamic turns". For evidence, check out the CSIA level 3 demo skiing under "Level 3 standards": http://snowproab.com/skipro/course_materials.htm
My preference is to down-unweight to relieve pressure through transition, then apply it going into the next turn. Doing so should enable the skier to maintain consistent pressure against the ice rather than the abrupt pressure change (and breaking of ski away from the ice) inherent in a sudden up-unweight to initiate.
just as important as early edge engagement is being progressive with you movement so you dont move to fast and end up in skidded turns. If you move relativitly slowly you have much better edge grip.
Agreed. That's implied in "maintaining consistent pressure in the turn".
skate down the falline to shapeing - skate down the fallline and progressively let your ski go out farther on each skating stroke as they start to come around match your inside skis. As both skis start to match keep the same feeling of 'skating" down the falline at the top of each turn
Ahh, that's a good one. I forgot about it! Not sure how to apply it on a black as skating will increase the speed too much. It works well on flat flat greens.
tug of war or the whip - requires a partner and a wide open slope. do this first in wedges before progressing to parallel turns. both you and you partner hold on to piece of bamboo and make medium radius turns while the person down hill in the transtion tries to pull the uphill the person down the hill. The downhill person resist but yields to start the next turn. and repeats process untill you run out of slope. Please I urge you to be very careful with this one. Its fun and teaches alot of moving the COM down the hill in alittle bit of time but has ALOT of risk and should only be done with skiers who for the most part know what they are doing.
Interesting! I imagine it's good if your learner can't bring themselves to get their CoM down the hill. This drill may work well in a private? I'll try it with another strong skier first. (...and try to find some bamboo... d'oh.)
To the extent that you can spread the forces evenly throughout the turn and those forces are less than the gripping capability of your edges, you will have the ability to carve.
How do you define the gripping capability of your edges? I understand the concept of edge grip by melting ice and tracking in a line, but aside from magazine reviews stating "excellent edge grip", how does one identify it? (To put it in the most base question possible: what calibre of ski is capable of edge grip on a black? is my 2007 x-wing 10 capable of it? Is there a ski that grips ice like Oprah on Christmas ham?)
In practice, most skiers will benefit more from increasing the sharpness of their edges than from improving their technique.
Interesting perspective. I've heard both the statement above, and the counter-statement that technique allows a skier to ski the dullest blade on ice if balanced over it. I'm inclined to think both are required...
I'm with Bush about carving on steep "firm" terrain. We generally prefer to achieve speed control through turn shape. However, the excess speed that (cough) firm snow provides us, combined with steeper terrain means that we would need to employ ridiculous shaped turns to make carved turns under these conditions. Most times we don't have the room to safely do this.
For sure. Only appropriate on empty days on an empty wide run. This isn't a good technique at all for Saturday skiing.
Originally Posted by therusty
It's much more practical to add some skidding back in under these conditions. In places where you are having trouble, try pivoting the turn entry and carving the finish.
I find, regardless of terrain steepness, if the edge isn't engaged going into the turn, it's unlikely the skier can engage the edge until the next turn. Instead the skis simply slide downhill. Yes, balancing over the outside edge should give control to engage that edge, but it just doesn't seem to work well in practice. Kind of like how when a conductor brakes a train, it takes ages for the brakes to grip.
It would be really nice to have an ice clinic out here. Surprisingly I've never seen such a clinic even in Ontario, ice central. In the past when I'd ask the level 2 instructors in my ski club about training on ice, they'd dance around the issue saying "ski lightly" without doing any concrete drills on ice or working normal drills back into skiing on ice. Maybe this is better addressed in the CSCF (Canadian Ski Coaching Federation) courses. It's something I'd like to develop in my skiing to be able to teach well.Edited by Metaphor_ - 3/18/10 at 11:55pm