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2010 / 2011 Atomic SL D2 FIS / Race Stock Skis - Is Atomic Ditching the D2 Platform?

post #1 of 18
Thread Starter 
Hi there:
 
I hope everyone is enjoying the current ski season.  I was wondering if anyone here knows if Atomic is going away with the D2 platform on their FIS/race stock SL skis or making it optional similar to the retail models. 

I was at various Olympic events a few weeks back and a lot of the Atomic sponsored racers (including Benni Raich) were not using the SL D2 skis.  They were using skis with almost the same top sheet as the current D2 model (predominantly white) but with the VIST like (I forgot they are in fact VIST like) plates as in previous years.  I have also attached an image below.  It looks like Atomic has basically kept the top sheet almost the same next year unlike the last few years where they would change the cosmetics of the top sheet yearly.

I am asking this question because I was considering purchasing the SL D2 FIS ski at the end of the season at a discounted rate.  If Atomic is going away with the D2 platform, then I may as well keep my current SL 12's.

By the way, if anyone is interested, I can post images of next year's Head SL, Rossi SL and the crazy new sidecut on the Fischer SL FIS "hole ski" for next year.  The latter had some really radical sidecuts.  

Thanks in advance.

Atomic resized.JPG
Edited by Scientist - 3/17/10 at 11:31pm
post #2 of 18
This thread was found deleted. I restored it at the request of the OP, and don't know why it was deleted.
post #3 of 18
The D2 SL is a tad too damp and holds onto the edge a bit too long. They are fantastic skis, but not for the demands of the athletes needing more lively skis. Typically World Cup (and Europa Cup) use water injection which results in very grippy snow. This coupled with the ice hold provided by D2 makes too much of a good thing. For typical hard snow, and especially eastern ice, D2 is awesome. If Atomic was trying to hoodwink the public, they would have painted the top to mimic the D2 version from afar. There is a slight change to the graphics next year, so it isn't entirely the same yet is very close.

The risers on Atomics is a proprietory design and not VIST. 

There is still developement going on for D2 SL with the new X binding.
Edited by Betaracer - 3/17/10 at 10:20pm
post #4 of 18
Personally I think all these things (hole with Fischer, D2 with Atomic, asymmetric tips with Rossignol, waveflex with Elan etc.) are pure marketing. Why I think so? Half of Atomic WC skiers were skiing on "old" non D2 skis during whole season. If D2 would be so great, believe me everyone, including other companies, would have/ski on D2. On top of that, if you saw new (2011) race stock Fischer SL skis, you will see hole is almost gone. There was bunch of problems with tips cracking on SL skis, so obviously they make it smaller to avoid cracking, but with hole so small all "benefits" they were trying to sell last 3 years are gone. So based on all this, I really think all these things are pure marketing and nothing more.
post #5 of 18
Anyone want a look at next year's Atomic race catalogue?

http://www.irsida.is/media/PDF/ATOMIC_RACE_20102011.pdf

Grab it while its hot.
post #6 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Betaracer View Post
 If Atomic was trying to hoodwink the public, they would have painted the top to mimic the D2 version from afar. There is a slight change to the graphics next year, so it isn't entirely the same yet is very close.

Like they did to hide the fledgling D2 last year  The little metal plates were there, but the graphics made everything look like a regular flat Atomic topsheet.

svindal%20.jpg
post #7 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by primoz View Post

Personally I think all these things (hole with Fischer, D2 with Atomic, asymmetric tips with Rossignol, waveflex with Elan etc.) are pure marketing. Why I think so? Half of Atomic WC skiers were skiing on "old" non D2 skis during whole season. If D2 would be so great, believe me everyone, including other companies, would have/ski on D2. On top of that, if you saw new (2011) race stock Fischer SL skis, you will see hole is almost gone. There was bunch of problems with tips cracking on SL skis, so obviously they make it smaller to avoid cracking, but with hole so small all "benefits" they were trying to sell last 3 years are gone. So based on all this, I really think all these things are pure marketing and nothing more.
 

Are you refering to the SL, or all disciplines? SL you are correct, GS dead wrong as all factory supported racers were on D2. SG and DH it depended on the course, conditions and set. Eric Guay won the last two SG (and the globe) on D2 SG.

Your other point of all brands using the technology.... Have you heard of patents? Not quite so simple as copying someone else's design. Atomic has a patent on almost every component of D2 technology, so other brands will either need to pay for the rights to use it or develop their own version withot infringing on the existing patents. Most ski brands do not have the resources for R&D so they do what is cheap and easy, use sandwich construction and play with shape and lay-up.
post #8 of 18
D2 is still an active part of next year's skis, but there are also a couple of SL models with a different plate.

D2 is solid technology, but that doesn't mean it's the best or most preferred by everyone.  Atomic is extending their reach with a couple of variations.

And then the top sponsored athletes will often be able to get something very special and personal, so just watching the podium won't really tell the whole story about any given manufacturer's product line trends.
post #9 of 18
Any chance you could post up the other pictures you have of 2011 slalom skis? I'm especially interested in seeing pictures of the sidecut change to the Fischer WC SL hole ski. I've got a pair of WC SL's I free ski on for those hard pack days and wouldn't mind upgrading. Unfortunately if I want 2011 race stock I have to order them sight unseen.

Cheers
post #10 of 18

A shot of the 2011 hole skis @ http://www.ski-review.com/content/view/1701/34/1/1/

 

Not really sure if they are race stock or not?

post #11 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Betaracer View Post

Your other point of all brands using the technology.... Have you heard of patents? Not quite so simple as copying someone else's design. Atomic has a patent on almost every component of D2 technology, so other brands will either need to pay for the rights to use it or develop their own version withot infringing on the existing patents. Most ski brands do not have the resources for R&D so they do what is cheap and easy, use sandwich construction and play with shape and lay-up.
 

 

And the cool part of that story is that the D2 design and patents came from the Fels brothers, here in Calgary, back in the days when they were building the regular Fels ski.  Atomic was actually doing their manufacturing and recognized a good thing and bought the rights to the design and patents a few years later.  I had the chance to demo the first D2 prototype back about 10 or so years ago and, needless to say, it was the most radical looking thing on the mountain... very short (for that time), and jet black with a red control deck, held together with bolts from a snowboard binding if I recall correctly.
 

post #12 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteepDeep View Post

A shot of the 2011 hole skis @ http://www.ski-review.com/content/view/1701/34/1/1/

 

Not really sure if they are race stock or not?


They're not.

post #13 of 18

Atomic are not cutting away the d2 plate, but in slalom their world cup team never use the d2. they always use that ski with the normal plate, and they are a lot more stiff and you can get them in lengths as 168 and maybe 170 (dont know for sure).

post #14 of 18

The first "Doubledecker" ski was produced in 3 Rivers Quebec and used very sucessfully bt Ernie McCulloch shown below in 1950 era.

sm_McCulloch_Ernie%2079-22_p61.jpg

post #15 of 18



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Betaracer View Post

The D2 SL is a tad too damp and holds onto the edge a bit too long. They are fantastic skis, but not for the demands of the athletes needing more lively skis. Typically World Cup (and Europa Cup) use water injection which results in very grippy snow. This coupled with the ice hold provided by D2 makes too much of a good thing. For typical hard snow, and especially eastern ice, D2 is awesome. If Atomic was trying to hoodwink the public, they would have painted the top to mimic the D2 version from afar. There is a slight change to the graphics next year, so it isn't entirely the same yet is very close.

The risers on Atomics is a proprietory design and not VIST. 

There is still developement going on for D2 SL with the new X binding.


I am having a bit of difficulty with this post Betaracer... I read in Ski Racing that the women were having so much trouble getting an edge into injected courses that they had to go to a serrated edge to assist them. That seem to be at odds with your statement that injected courses are "very grippy"! Can you clarify this please?

post #16 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speeder View Post

. I read in Ski Racing that the women were having so much trouble getting an edge into injected courses that they had to go to a serrated edge to assist them. That seem to be at odds with your statement that injected courses are "very grippy"! Can you clarify this please?

??? Why would "difficult to get an edge into" be at odds with "difficult to get an edge out of" ???

*confused*
post #17 of 18

Can someone clarify, please???

  /Too damp, hold the edge, or don't hold edge, etc..........///......

 

 

IMO the D2 platform/ or the control deck/ might ease the stiffness of the skis at lower speeds and easy trails,but once you start to really drive/ bend/ the skis they are actually stiffer, cause the control  deck is adding resistance in the direction of bending the skis once the deck reaches its further contact points in front and rear...

 

In my defense, I would say that th Atomic athletes use the D2 platform in all of speed categories: DH: SG  GS..... We all know that with speed skis you'll need the hardest, stiffest, undampened boards you ever skied on...

 

Let me know what you  think....... Thanks Andy...

post #18 of 18

Wouldn't grippy suggest easy to get and edge in and difficult to get out? .....Too hard to get an edge in suggests too hard do get a GD edge in and too GD hard to keep it in. You guys have skied on boiler plate before right? It's hard to get an edge in and REALLY easy to get it out (same as hard to keep it in the ice Comprex). I think that's the difference between grippy and hard to get an edge in. 

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EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Ski Gear Discussion › 2010 / 2011 Atomic SL D2 FIS / Race Stock Skis - Is Atomic Ditching the D2 Platform?