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Considering a GS or Cheater Ski...need advice...

post #1 of 20
Thread Starter 
I'd appreciate any feedback. 

I'm a beer league racer, early 40s, male, former USSA/High School skier, 5'10", 200 pounds, good physical condition.  (I know...the charts say I should weigh around 170 but I'm built like a soccer player...all thighs.  I cycle around 250 miles per week.)  Our league races NASTARish courses...relatively tight GS turns.  Usual times are around 17 to 18 seconds for the faster guys.  I ski on Dobermann SLRs and Tecnica Diablos (flex 110).  I will get new boots this year as the Tecnicas are too soft for me.  That is a given.  Unlike most NASTAR hills I have seen, our hill is relatively steep and as is the case in Michigan...hard pack...not ice but close enough.  I raced about five years ago and the better racers where beating me by two seconds.  This was my first year on shaped skiis and I was skiing a Soloman GS ski in 186.  About three years ago I bought the Dobermanns and I spent some time learning how to ski them.  I raced this year after a three year hiatus and I'm almost always in the top three and always within two or three tenths if I don't win. 

So I'm considering a longer ski...either a short GS or a cheater.  The short GS has the issue with the FIS radius.  I don't know what a 16-17 radius cheater will do for me in terms of my time.  The bootomline is that I want to go faster...duh.

I'm wondering if either option will make me faster or if I should just stick with the Dobermann SLRs. 

As a side note, I really am interested in the aggresive side cuts of the Nordica Spitfire and the Blizzard that seems to be similar.  Not predisposed to go with either but I like the concept.  

BTW - this is my first post so if i put it in the wrong forum, let me know.

Thanks in advance. 
post #2 of 20
Our Monday Night Beer league is run as a NASTAR scored event and by far the most popular ski is the Fischer Progressor 9.  If you're not familiar with it, it has a "dual radius" design.  In the 170 length (which I use) the front half of the ski has a 13 meter radius while the back half has a 17.  
Edited by patmoore - 3/17/10 at 12:27pm
post #3 of 20
^^^ Sweet, a "Double Barrel" cheater
Welcome to Epic Hex!
post #4 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post

^^^ Sweet, a "Double Barrel" cheater
Welcome to Epic Hex!

Oh, I'd love a pair of Progressor 9+ boards in a 175 or 180.  Tested them when the model first came out and fell in love - only to find out it was sold out in the lengths I wanted.  Thus why I have my Head SS Magnums, which aren't quite as race-ready, but they're quite nice, all the same.
post #5 of 20
We're out of the 175 but have one pair left in 180.  We have two remaining pairs in the 160 length, one in 165, and one in 170.  I'll be on a pair of 170s at the NASTAR Nationals next week.
post #6 of 20

You are a good and strong skier.
As you make your selection remember AJ rips a course like you describe on 184cm FIS legal GS skis with 27m sidecut.
The longest and straightest ski you can make work is the best.
If you think you can reealy bend them with your 200 pounds and bike legs...there are an awful lot of interesting used race stock skis available at this time of year.

post #7 of 20
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the advice...I'm thinking about a pair of Nordica Dobermann GSRs in 181 with a 23m radius. 
post #8 of 20
Check out some of the Rossi Oversized race line or maybe even a FIS legal womens GS ski. With a FIS legal race ski you will get fast bases with a good grind, and by getting a womens ski you will get something 180+ with a 23m+ turn radius. Also what are you waxing with?
post #9 of 20
Thread Starter 
Thanks, I wax with Swix LF and I top with HF if humid and warm enough.  It has been working.  We ran a 'tight' super G on our last night and I was in front on 165s SLRs versus some 180 GS boards.  I wax just to get a chance to drink beer in the garage and get away from the kids.  Cheaper than a therapist.
post #10 of 20
Thread Starter 
...speaking of the garage...I just walked out there and I have a pair of Salomon 2V 180cm that are stamped 21 radius.  They have got to be 2001 or 2002 skis.  Barely used.  I skied them twice this year and hated them compared to the Nordica Dobermann SLRs.  Can I expect much difference between these and a newer GS racing in a 23 radius?  If not, I'll perish the thought of buying a new pair.  I know I'm way faster on the slalom skis. 
post #11 of 20
yup,  GS skis have moved on a loooong way since then.  I have a real deal  07 race stock salomon Lab GS 181  r>21 w/binders @ $200 which would be a great for what you are looking for.    PM if interested
post #12 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotsSkier View Post

yup,  GS skis have moved on a loooong way since then.  I have a real deal  07 race stock salomon Lab GS 181  r>21 w/binders @ $200 which would be a great for what you are looking for.    PM if interested

What has changed?
post #13 of 20
From my experience the earlier generation were a lot harder work to get into the turn.  Looking at fischer for example, from 05 onwards it was a whole lot better ski.  Changes in flex and shape meant they turned in a whole lot better without giving up any stability or grip.  Then of course the cycle started again with the current 27m skis
post #14 of 20
Thanks! :)
post #15 of 20
In theory, the fastest ski will be the one with tightest radius with which you can still handle the pressue and not skid. It all depends on what kind of speeds you reach.
post #16 of 20
WHAT?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamt View Post

In theory, the fastest ski will be the one with tightest radius with which you can still handle the pressue and not skid. It all depends on what kind of speeds you reach.
post #17 of 20
Have you considered having a race shop put a good grind on it? A local shop should know your local conditions and know a good grind for those conditions. If you are less than a second out on a short course, wax and base will probably help more. Do you ever clean your bases out by doing a hot scrape of non-fluoro wax? it will help unclog the pores in the base and allow the base to absorb more wax.
post #18 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post

WHAT?

 



 

The fastest possible line is straight lines between the gates, but it would also give infinite pressure. In FIS GS the Ski radius is limited to 27+ m in order not to risk injury to the skier. An SL ski would be faster if the conditions allowed, but there is no way to handle the forces at WC GS speeds. However, in clubraces the courses are usually slower, and a ski with a shorter radius is faster if you can handle the forces.
post #19 of 20
What are WC GS speeds (approximately)? On the last GS race I did the course was about 1000m long and I did it in slightly under 52 seconds. That's an average speed of 70km/h = 43mph. Obviously my maximum speed must have been a fair bit faster than the average! It certainly felt like a very fast course and I took air at one point despite my best efforts to keep the skis on the snow. That was kind of exciting (even though I guessed during pre-race inspection that I was likely to be in the air at that point). Maybe I have to train super-G next season...

I was skiing on a pair of K2 Moto Cross skis (181/17) which I have skied masters GS races on this year. But after the above experience I have decided that I need a longer and more stable ski for that kind of course so my quiver now has (as of yesterday) an Atomic 186/27. It's probably going to be a tough step up from what I am skiing now. But they were a good second-hand deal at the end of the season, so I couldn't resist!

Best time on the hill was 49 seconds by an 18-year old in the club who has raced in some senior FIS races this year. Since I'm 43 and only started racing last season I think I'm doing OK....of course I have to find a way to go faster (grin). 
Edited by hyperkub - 4/2/10 at 6:06am
post #20 of 20
Put plenty o wax on those this summer, get a good soft(non flouro) wax to load the bases, also if you think you might have any base work done, get it done now so you have time to recover the bases before next year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hyperkub View Post

What are WC GS speeds (approximately)? On the last GS race I did the course was about 1000m long and I did it in slightly under 52 seconds. That's an average speed of 70km/h = 43mph. Obviously my maximum speed must have been a fair bit faster than the average! It certainly felt like a very fast course and I took air at one point despite my best efforts to keep the skis on the snow. That was kind of exciting (even though I guessed during pre-race inspection that I was likely to be in the air at that point). Maybe I have to train super-G next season...

I was skiing on a pair of K2 Moto Cross skis (181/17) which I have skied masters GS races on this year. But after the above experience I have decided that I need a longer and more stable ski for that kind of course so my quiver now has (as of yesterday) an Atomic 186/27. It's probably going to be a tough step up from what I am skiing now. But they were a good second-hand deal at the end of the season, so I couldn't resist!

Best time on the hill was 49 seconds by an 18-year old in the club who has raced in some senior FIS races this year. Since I'm 43 and only started racing last season I think I'm doing OK....of course I have to find a way to go faster (grin). 
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