When people ski into you and THEY fall...

If you are being run into this often, are you sure you aren't skiing erratically and with little indication of where you are going? How many drinks had you typically consumed before being run into? Were the other people falling from their frantic attempts to bail out as you veered wildly drunkenly into their path? Why do you enjoy knocking down the elderly?

I agree with the second poster... To be hit 4 times is unreal. I have yet been ran into while skiing, ski about 40days/yr for the past 5 years. Perhaps u ski at really busy places or just ski erratically?

dunno, seems unreal.

WOW   4 times.   Maybe you should ski a little less in control and a lot faster.

I'm not so sure it's so unusual. Anyone who's not a fast skier probably had close calls and got run into. Just look at the numerous posts about being crashed into and got knocked down (even injured) to know that's not so rare. I know quite a few people who had been crashed into and gone down themselves! I know I did (got crashed in.

Only I don't keep count of those when I myself didn't go down.

Believe it or not I wasn't trying to be facetious, but was serious.  Have been skiing for over 30 yrs and have never had anyone run into the back of me.  If this happens often then reevaluating your skiing might be in order.  Q. Do I ski slow, too slow or run where others are skiing faster because....................  Do I turn a lot across in front of people.   Do I ski where there are only out of control Jongs?  Do I ski on a run right in the middle where there is heavy traffic.   Can I alter my ski habits to make these rear end collisions less likely to happen.

What I am say is something is wrong with this picture  that many near rear enders is not normal.

There are other alternatives;  do you ski with the mountain and flow down the hill using its contours while skiing down the hill. OR you could move to Northern Idaho where there are no crowds on the slopes.   I stood in the longest lift line of the year last Sunday - there were 5 other skiers in front of me - ugh.

It's not the speed; it's the speed differential.  If you ski faster than anyone else, no one will run into the back of you.  I've never had anyone run into me (and, touch wood, I have never hit anyone).

I think they fall because they are frantically trying to avoid hitting you, while you are braced against  a turn and just get shoved down the hill.

I've been hit a few times over the years by people who definitely fared a lot worse than I did. While I'm always glad if they didn't get hurt, I still have zero sympathy for them, either way.

Two things amaze me these days. One is how few people actually know how to make a real turn--that is, a definite, precise, and controlled direction change, at will. The other, which seems to go hand in hand with the first (since few people realize that they don't know how to make a real turn), is how many people think that it's everyone else's responsibility to get out of their way. (It isn't--not legally, not ethically, and not by any rule of common courtesy or sense.)

"He turned in front of me" has to be the among the lamest excuses for a collision ever invented (other than the guy who once told me "you were in my carve"). It demonstrates a complete lack of awareness of the responsibility we all have to be able--constantly--to prevent collisions with anyone on the hill below--when overtaking, to "leave enough space for the overtaken skier to make any voluntary or involuntary movement" (from the FIS "International Rules for Conduct"--as good an expression of common sense as I've seen). "I was in front of you (you idiot)--where else could I have turned?"

Unfortunately, turning is becoming a lost art, at least in the United States. The overwhelming majority of skiers at most major resorts I've seen fall into two categories: those who think of their "turns" purely as techniques to control speed (which means that what they call turning is actually braking--gross skidding, with consequently minuscule control of direction), and those who have learned to do nothing but lock up their edges and ride around on their sidecut, with little control of either direction or speed. The "flat ski world" of freestyle terrain parks, and the onslaught of rockered, reverse sidecut, fat specialized powder skis, used out of their element on the "front side," have not helped the situation either.

And that is the problem--many skiers simply cannot turn! They don't realize that all they're doing is defensive braking, or edge-locked carves. They don't realize that braking is the antithesis of "going where you want to go"--that braking skids actually sacrifice directional control. I've long said that great skiing, as a habit, involves "skiing a slow line fast" (skiing a slow enough line as fast as you can, when you can--and braking when you have to). That means using technique to control line, and line (tactics) to control speed. Skillful skiers can thread a line safely through a crowd of people as easily as through a gladed tree run. "Ski the spaces between the trees" (and people), they say. It doesn't matter how fast you go--if you go where other people aren't! But the majority of skiers, at best, try to avoid obstacles and other people--which is very different from going where they aren't! It's like a driver looking for light poles, trees, mailboxes, and pedestrians and trying to miss them, rather than looking to keep it on the road.

I have often said that great skiers do not turn to control speed--they turn so they don't have to control speed! Skiers who ski well, using tactics (line) to control speed, obviously make direction changes. They complete turns of any chosen size as much as needed, carrying speed across, and sometimes even back up, the hill (if they're good enough, and need to reduce speed). Needless to say, that puts the most skilled skiers the most at risk of collisions with the out-of-control (of direction) skiers skidding and hacking their way down the hill at sometimes great speed. "You turned in front of me...." Well, duh!

It is ironic that the very efforts to control speed (brake) can cost us control of direction--and also that the faster you go, the more dangerous it becomes to hit the brakes. For these reasons, skiers who think turns are for controlling speed, and who develop the habit (and skills) of using their skis or boards primarily as brakes, inevitably become increasingly dangerous the "better" they get.

Eventually, they become the idiot who nearly killed one of our fellow EpicSki Bears the other day at Keystone. That Bear--a very strong skier--was linking high-speed, highly carved, consistent medium-short radius turns down a steeper blue pitch. Because he's also alert and experienced, he saw the idiot bearing down in a straight line--tails swishing uselessly left and right--just in time to abort a turn, leap out of the way, and possibly save both of their lives. The idiot skied over the Bear's skis, and continued on down the mountain, oblivious. Witnessing this egregious incident, I skied down and confronted the idiot. "Are you aware that you just skied over someone's skis and barely avoided a serious collision up there?" I asked. "He turned in front of me," the idiot replied. When I reminded him that the other skier was in front of him, and that turning is what good skiers do, and that it was his responsibility and legal obligation not to endanger skiers ahead of him no matter what they do, his reply become a slew of profanity that I won't attempt to repeat here. No recognition of his irresponsible behavior, of the risk he was exposing himself and others to, of how close he had just come to causing a serious incident for which he would have been 100% at fault, and for which it is very unlikely that he carried liability insurance to protect him (as in a car). And no apologies--just a string of profanity, and several repetitions of "he turned in front of me."

Would I have felt sympathy for this guy, had he hurt himself? No. I'd have been relieved to see him carried off the hill, off skis, where he couldn't endanger anyone else for a while!

Best regards,
Bob

Well stated Bob!!

 Have you ever noticed the 18 cars behind you as your driving 35mph on the highway with your left turn signal blinking.

Have you ever noticed the big red firetruck with it's red flashing lights, screaming siren and blaring horns behind you as you sit in the middle of the intersection waiting for that left hand turn.

Have you ever noticed the 10 car pile-up you left behind because you executed that left hand turn going 1, then came to a stop so you wouldn't scrape your bumper on the driveway into the grocery store.

Have you ever noticed the 5 people impatiently waiting in the grocery isle as you stand in the middle debating what kind of peanut butter to get.

Have you ever noticed the 18 people standing in line behind you as your debating yesterdays receipt with the poor grocery clerk.

Have you ever noticed no one ever says "we'll ride with you".

Didn't think so.

I think a lot of people ski terrain that is over their head instead of becoming proficient on easier slopes.  They are not really progressing, they are just blocking others -- I guess it strokes their egos to say I just "skied" a black or double blue even though I was a menace to all when I was on that trail.  When it's just a few, no big deal.  But if it's a bunch practicing arbitrary direction changes, things can become interesting.  Often these folks will leave you no room to maneuver if you get too close.  They like to do full traverses instead of leaving a few feet along the edge for you to pass.  Or they stop and start up again without checking for uphill traffic.  I usually just stop when I see these moving roadblocks in front of me and wait for them to eventually disappear or disperse.  I've never been hit in part because I've been lucky but perhaps more importantly I am always aware of and sensitive to uphill traffic, I usually ski at least as fast as the general flow, I realize, if I am skiing slowly for some reason, that it makes sense to allow passing room for others going faster and, if I do stop, I stop where I can be seen and am unlikely to be blocking traffic.  Gee, I guess all the above is nothing more than common sense and courtesy.

Quote:


I'm probably giving your sarcastic post above more recognition than it deserves, Jag, but I will point out one important difference that appears to have escaped you: You've described a few of those justifiably annoying situations where someone--rudely, selfishly, or just plain obliviously--blocks traffic and prevents others from continuing on with their various "missions." I'm sure all of us have found ourselves behind a few of those people at times (and most of us have probably been that person once or twice, too, for whatever reason). The difference is, there's plenty of room on most ski slopes. A skier making turns--assuming it is not a narrow couloir or something--is inconveniencing at most only those skiers above who lack the ability to turn and go around him. If you find that annoying, well...what can I say?

For what it's worth, in the "we'll ride with you" department, there were people in the party of "the Idiot" I described above who suggested that they hoped their "friend" might learn a lesson from this frightening near miss! Apparently, he's not making a lot of new skiing buddies himself.

I'll tell another story. Earlier this season, I watched another extraordinary skier and top instructor trainer, while working with students, narrowly avoid a collision very similar to the incident I described above. Fortunately she, too, ended up only getting her skis clipped. Idiot  #2 proclaimed that "she was just there, in my way!" ("HIS" way? Wow!) It's worth noting that this run is about 100 yards wide at this point. She had to be somewhere, didn't she? Fortunately for both, she had the awareness and athleticism to get herself out of "his way." I asked the guy how he'd have felt if it had been a little kid who had fallen down, "just there, in his way," and unable to get out "his" way. He had no reply.

The nice thing about being able to turn is that it gives you more than one "way."

Ski fast, but ski in control, and keep it real, Jag.

Best regards,
Bob

Common sense, courtesy, and just plain responsible skiing, I'd say, Bumpsrfun. "Good on ya."

Collisions on the slopes can be life-changing--or even fatal. Only a fool would rely solely on the responsibility, common sense, and courtesy of everyone else to avoid them. It's important to recognize that adhering to "Your Responsibility Code" protects us only from being responsible for a collision ourselves--it hardly ensures that others will be responsible. There is no doubt that to protect ourselves, we must remain constantly vigilant and aware of those who are either truly out of control, or just skiing irresponsibly. Both of the excellent skiers I've described above were able to take emergency action to avoid serious collisions that would have been legally the fault of others. Both may be still skiing today because of it. It's a good idea!

Best regards,
Bob

 Actually, I was directing the post towards the OP and the "I ski slower..." comment, trying to bring some humor into it.

Although I am honored you quoted me.

Give Metaphor a break, it doesn't sound like he's a collision instigator.  According to his third post, it seems like he's really had only 1 collision, that he may or may not have had a hand or foot in.  The mogul run.  In a mogul field, the lines and avenues to avoid another skier are limited, so its just best to give a lot of room in this area.

On crowded green runs with all those out of control beginners and wannabe snowboard crossers, it's very possible to be doing everything right and to get hit by someone.  As for the Cypress collision, the downhill skier has the right of way.

Reading though this, I do wonder if Metaphor is aware enough of what is going on behind him. 
If I wind up with someone "tailgaiting" me, I pull over.  It seems to happen quite a bit in bump fields -- someone will take off at almost the same time, and be skiing one line over and one bump behind.  I don't tolerate that -- I turn away from them and stop.

If the slopes are so crowded that you can't ski without a potential collision behind you, ski faster and then go somewhere else.

Obviously there will still be some situations where you can't see it coming, but if you tune in you will realize you can often identify the accidents waiting to happen.

Exactly!

I can understand suddenly finding someone or something "just there" in your way.  It happened to me today. I was carving some nice turns and decided on the spur of the moment to ski under the lift to the other side of the run, and there was a big bare patch blocked off with poles.  It was "just there" all day! However, I was so into my turns that I forgot about it.  When  I realized that I was headed straight for it, I just turned!  What I can't understand is why they don't "just turn" when there's something or someone "just there, in their way". 

Metaphor, the fear of being hit from behind is something my wife feels every time out.  It takes the fun out of skiing for her.  She's primarily a slow, green circle skier and unfortunately the long, easy groomers she prefers are often where the most dangerous cases of fast out of control skiing take place.  I find the best option for her is to go skiing on days and at ski areas/trails that are not busy.  That usually means weekdays and late season.  You seem to have a good idea of steps to take to lessen your chances of being hit.  Besides picking low crowd days, the other key as mentioned by yourself and others is maintaining enough speed to keep up with the flow of traffic  When I'm skiing with her sometimes I'll try to run "interference" for her by trailing behind uphill to block any mad bombers heading her way.

Quote:

This thread was going to go one of two ways:

1. You actually are getting hit a lot because you are being oblivious and putting yourself in harms way. Unlikely from the length, coherence, and general respect for spelling in your initial post.

2. You are actually not getting hit that often and typically by either unskilled skiers in high traffic areas (looking at you Schoolmarm...) or by the ever present menace of high speed bro missiles. More likely, and also completely beaten to death. 

Given the likelihood of the second type of thread, your responses were going to be 1. go faster. 2. go faster and stop turning on the cat track and 3. omg i no rite! (I totally lectured this guy this one time and he gave me the bird.). I figured the drunken rampage was the more interesting angle... 

And before you think we are all just calling you a jong, which I see is too late, just realize we've all been there before and nobody likes being hit from behind. Especially when you can blindside people on the forums instead! 

you dam* Jong ... (what's a jong?)   actually, i find it funny.  i'm not an expert and barely a 7 but i agree and have little sympathy to someone uphill with lots of room to plan a simple course around those downhill.  if one is good, then they shouldn't have any reason to crash into someone nor have any excuse other than ignoring the '7 rules'. 

i know my limits and what it imposes on those uphill, i try to be considerate and won't hit a hill till i won't be in folks way should my lower skills impede a mad bomber.  luckily or with planning i haven't been hit in the 10 yrs since i took up skiing but i do know folks who have and for no fault of their own, have been either hit or seen others slammed into.  my sister in law witnessed her ski instructor pegged by a skier who seemed not to be in control, and he was seriously injured.  he had 20+ yrs of instruction and was in a 'controlled' area.  anyhow, not to ping folks irritated by those with lower skills than theirs, but even my lowly skill level have witnessed skiers i could claim as not needing to be on "my" hill, but i also recall that i'm uphill and it's their hill below.

IMO  ; )

pete

haha this has been very entertaining to read!!

STOP LYING JAG. YOU KNOW IT WAS CAUSE THAT ELDERLY COUPLE CUT YOUR FRESH PEANUT BUTTER TRAVERS!!! COM ON FESS UP!!!

I gotta ask .... Mount saint Louis/ Moonstone???your from BC?? was this a life dream to ski the great MSLM?
I have been arount that resort owwww a couple a or a few times. Ya the skier traffic on those green runs is bad, even on the weekdays cause they cater to school groups ( not a bad thing actually I think its great).
If you ski here all the time you will develope super evasion skills that will help you in your sking at other resorts ( except Blue Mtn ON where the ski traffic is like nothing Ive ever seen, Uphill cap 27000/hr vertical drop 700ft)
All you folks from the west just wouldn't understand!!

I'm glad I'm not the only person who thinks this way.  I've been hit from behind once or twice without going down, but the "hitter" definitely did the yard-sale thing.  I stopped to verify that they were OK, but I'm not giving them any assistance in picking up their stuff.

I usually ski making short-ish turns down one side of the trail; if you can't figure out how to get past using the 80% of the trail that's open to the other side of me...  well, maybe skiing's not your thing.

You mean I can't keep doing those let the skis run ,scream down the hill, 3 looooonnnnnngggggggggg turns from trail side to trail side anymore?? awww darn ( Im gunna sneek a few in anyway)

Having occasionally had to go off-piste to get by the slower skier, I would recommend that you always leave a couple of feet between you and the trail edge.   I never use up the entire trail, (unless I'm passing a slower skier on the edge of the trail).  Not only will it allow an errant skier an escape route, it gives you a little safety margin too.  Besides, the edge of the trail is where the snow-snakes hang out.

This is a teachable moment, it's not what you are doing before you are hit it's all about what you do after. Ask if they are ok, if you don't get a response, stab them with your pole until you do. If the response is anything other than "i'm so sorry" take one of their skis and throw it into the trees, if there are no trees, take it down the hill and leave it on the side of the slope so no one will run into it. If you get an immediate combative response procede directly to throwing one of their skis into the trees.

Or you could do what Bob Barnes said.