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What is & how to adjust forward pressure on bindings?

post #1 of 45
Thread Starter 
Hi,
When I took skis to the shop to adjust the bindings for my daughter (hand-me-down from her older sister),
the shop said that other than boot sole length & DIN, they also check the forward pressure.

I have no idea what that is and how do I adjust that.
Would appreciate some explanation.

thanks!
post #2 of 45
Forward pressure basically defines the distance between toe and heel pieces of a binding to accommodate given boot sole length. If it is too low - meaning that the distance between toe and heel pieces is larger than BSL - the boot will be "falling out" of the bindings even if the DIN is set correctly. If the forward pressure is too high - meaning that the distance between toe and heel pieces is smaller than BSL - the boot will be jammed in the binding and depending on the binding design may be released easier than it should or not released even if the DIN is set correctly.

Usually there is a visual indication of correct FP on the bindings. It differs though from manufacturer to manufacturer and even within the same brand.

Cheers,

cfr
post #3 of 45

Binding heel units slide in a track or have some mechanism to permit them to push the boot into the toe so that as the ski flexes and rebounds (beyond the static camber in the ski) the boot will maintain contact with both the toe and heel pieces. This is because as the ski flexes and rebounds, the space between the toe and heel changes; forward pressure compensates for the change in space, keeping the boot in the binding.

post #4 of 45
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the explanation. Think I understand the concept now. But...

there is a visual indicator that I should look for? And, what about adjustments? I only know of BSL & DIN adjustments in each of the toe/heel piece
post #5 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by hobieboy View Post

there is a visual indicator that I should look for? And, what about adjustments? I only know of BSL & DIN adjustments in each of the toe/heel piece
 
Which bindings do you have - brand and model?
post #6 of 45
 I always describe Forward Pressure like holding an ice cube.  Hold it just right and it stays in your hand, too loose, it falls and too tight and it can squirt right out of your hand (this is why pant legs are often a main cause of pre-releasing, other than snow).

And like CFR said, there are a ton of different visual indicators for Forward Pressure, so you need to let us know the make and model (if possible)
post #7 of 45
Toe pieces have a certain amount of elasticity that allow them to return the boot to center after a shock or twist moves it off axis.  Too much forward pressure will prevent the toe piece from returning to center.

A quick and dirty release function check is to hold the ski securely and knock the boot sideways at the toe enough to get lateral movement, but not enough to pop the boot out of the toe piece.  Normally the boot should quickly return to center.  If the binding doesn't return the boot to center, you have too much forward pressure and the boot will jam.  Simply back off the pressure slightly and re-test until the toe piece starts returning to center.  This should bring you within forward pressure specs.  Like I said, though, that's a quick and dirty approach to use if you don't know how to properly set the forward pressure, and different bindings have different guidelines for that and how to set it correctly (none of them are obvious to someone who isn't trained or doesn't have 'inside' information).
Edited by exracer - 3/6/10 at 9:49am
post #8 of 45
Do not adjust forward pressure with the boot in the binding.  Adjust, insert boot, check, remover boot and readjust if needed.
post #9 of 45
Thread Starter 
The bindings are Rossignol Axiom Jr. In fact, I also noticed that there is no markings on the BSL adjustments (the rear piece is adjustable); so how do I set them up properly?

thanks!
post #10 of 45
Have you determined the BSL of the boot to be used? Do you know what the DIN should be? Do you know how to check to see if the binding is actually operating properly?

Frankly, if you don't know and don't have someone local you can ask and verify that you have done it correctly, I'd recommend taking them to the shop. Its your daughter's safety we are talking about. $25 - $30 to have the shop set up and test the bindings. Isn't she worth it?

In all honesty, I do set up my gear, but if I get a binding I don't know, I talk to my buddies, trained shop technicians. They show me how to do it right, unequivocally.
post #11 of 45
Thread Starter 
MR, I hear ya and I'll probably take it to the shop. But, still want to "learn the trade"...

I do know the BSL & DIN and on some bindings (like my own - EL11/EL12) where there's markings, I feel comfortable enough to adjust.
But, as you say, when it comes to safety I'm not going to take risks...
post #12 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post

Do not adjust forward pressure with the boot in the binding.  Adjust, insert boot, check, remover boot and readjust if needed.
 

I just adjusted my forward pressure with the boot in the binding.  It's a Marker and you use a screwdriver to make the bolt in the back flush with the housing.  Adjust the din with the boot in the binding as well.  But I really don't know what I am doing.  That's how I was taught.
post #13 of 45
Turning the screws with the boot out of the binding puts less strain on the adjustment mechanism.  That's all.  Don't worry, it is probably robust enough to withstand a little abuse, so long as it isn't adjusted too often. 
My Markers have the flush screw/bolt.  My Fischers have an indicater that moves within a range on the side.

As you clamp the boot in the binding moves back against a spring, the other end of which is against a stop.  Turning the screw adjusts where the stop is. 
post #14 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Jones View Post

I just adjusted my forward pressure with the boot in the binding.  It's a Marker and you use a screwdriver to make the bolt in the back flush with the housing.  Adjust the din with the boot in the binding as well.  But I really don't know what I am doing.  That's how I was taught.

Just make sure to pop the boot out and then back in to make sure the adjustment screw is still flush with the housing.  If not, then make another adjustment.
post #15 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by hobieboy View Post

The bindings are Rossignol Axiom Jr. In fact, I also noticed that there is no markings on the BSL adjustments (the rear piece is adjustable); so how do I set them up properly?

thanks!
According to the Rossi binding manual:

To adjust the forward pressure, lift the tab at the rear of
the heelpiece with your finger. With the boot toe in the
toe cup and the brake supporting the heel, bring the
heelpiece up to the boot sole until it almost touches.
Release the tab and tap the heel forward. Insert the
boot in the binding and check that the scribe line on
the tab is within the marks of the side of the heel.

Rossi manual0708_r_en_US.bmp

Rossi manual0708_r_en_US2.bmp
post #16 of 45
Thread Starter 
Thanks very much for the info CFR...

I was adjusting that tab but couldn't figure out what is acceptable - now I know where to look.

I'll likely set it up then bring it to the shop to double check - ensure safety and hopefully I'll learn another tuning/set up procedure in the process.

thanks!
post #17 of 45
Thread Starter 

Hi guys,

Need a little more help here now that my daugther's boot size got bigger...

I re-adjusted the binding but the forward pressure scribe mark can JUST be seen when the boot is in the binding - the black scribe mark is at the very forward of that window.

Not ideal, but is this ok? Or do I really need to have the binding re-mounted onto the ski? (for record - when the boot is not in the binding, the black scribe mark is all the way to the back of the window).

 

thanks!

post #18 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by hobieboy View Post

Hi guys,

Need a little more help here now that my daugther's boot size got bigger...

I re-adjusted the binding but the forward pressure scribe mark can JUST be seen when the boot is in the binding - the black scribe mark is at the very forward of that window.

Not ideal, but is this ok? Or do I really need to have the binding re-mounted onto the ski? (for record - when the boot is not in the binding, the black scribe mark is all the way to the back of the window).

 

thanks!


Depends, what is your insurance deductible?  I would suggest asking your wife if the correct setting for HER daughter is important..see what she says. wink.gif

 

post #19 of 45
Thread Starter 

Well... I have actually asked ;) and the answer is: depends... is this within the "safety window" of the binding?

 

I am going to take it to a shop but thought I'll start with the knowledge here... my dilemma really is that the mark is at the edge of the window, not the middle. Not ideal. But then they did make it a window and not a specific spot.

 

And, another lame (I know its her body so not worth debating but...) reason to try to skim on this is that she'll only be using the ski for this weekend's 2-day start to the season due to crappy snow condition in this early season.

post #20 of 45

There are two marks you have to be between.  You don't have to be in the middle. 

post #21 of 45

Hey,

 

Just had an experience at a sports shop and am questioning the forward pressure adjustment after I got the stuff back from them.

 

So, I normally adjust my own skis and my kids skis. A few times, I've taken them into shops to be on the safe side after the fact and was told the bindings did not need to be adjusted so I feel I'm doing ok.

 

Long story short my kids gear gets stolen first day of ski club so I need to get him set up again fast.

 

The replacement skis(I already had) had bindings already mounted. K2 Comanche Junior Comp Skis with Marker 7.0 bindings.

 

When I went to adjust the binding to fit the boot I ended up adjusting the rear binding all the way forward to get a solid fit but there was no more adjustment left.  Then I checked the forward pressure as I always do.

 

I saw that when the boot is in the binding (after adjusting the DIN of course) the indicator line "white" is still behind the rear most range line "green". The below pic is with no boot in the binding but when it is in its not much different if at all.




So...I take it to a shop to have them re-mounted because from what I understand (see above picture) the indicator line (white arrow) should be between the range indicator lines (green) right!!!!??

 

When I pick them up from the shop they tell me that a remount was not necessary and they just adjusted them.  So I have a somewhat intense discussion with the ski tech about forward pressure and he says that since the heal of the binding "moved" when the boot was inserted into the binding that there is enough forward pressure and that the indicator does not have to be in-between the range indicator.

 

I guess I want to know what you all think. I do not have a good feeling about this.

 

Thanks,

 

Tim


Edited by vtski75 - 1/7/17 at 1:13pm
post #22 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by vtski75 View Post
 

Hey,

 

Just had an experience at a sports shop and am questioning the forward pressure adjustment after I got the stuff back from them.

 

So, I normally adjust my own skis and my kids skis. A few times, I've taken them into shops to be on the safe side after the fact and was told the bindings did not need to be adjusted so I feel I'm doing ok.

 

Long story short my kids gear gets stolen first day of ski club so I need to get him set up again fast.

 

The replacement skis(I already had) had bindings already mounted. K2 Comanche Junior Comp Skis with Marker 7.0 bindings.

 

When I went to adjust the binding to fit the boot I ended up adjusting the rear binding all the way forward to get a solid fit but there was no more adjustment left.  Then I checked the forward pressure as I always do.

 

I saw that when the boot is in the binding (after adjusting the DIN of course) the indicator line "white" is still behind the rear most range line "green". The below pic is with no boot in the binding but when it is in its not much different if at all.




So...I take it to a shop to have them re-mounted because from what I understand (see above picture) the indicator line (white arrow) should be between the range indicator lines (green) right!!!!??

 

When I pick them up from the shop they tell me that a remount was not necessary and they just adjusted them.  So I have a somewhat intense discussion with the ski tech about forward pressure and he says that since the heal of the binding "moved" when the boot was inserted into the binding that there is enough forward pressure and that the indicator does not have to be in-between the range indicator.

 

I guess I want to know what you all think. I do not have a good feeling about this.

 

Thanks,

 

Tim


It should be in between with the boot in the binding.

post #23 of 45

Has your kid used these skis and stayed in when appropriate? Kids bindings are far less precise than adults and kids apply far less force on a ski so slightly too little forward pressure, while not good, may not be a problem. I think the shop tech's explanation is similar to mine and is not total whooey. On the other hand, you asked for a remount because you felt it appropriate, which it is as there is not enough forward pressure, according to the manufacturer's specs.

 

The service ticket for binding service has a place for a tech's signature for a reason. They are attesting that adjustments made to the binding follow the manufacturers specifications. This ski doesn't if the white arrow line isn't between the green lines with a boot in. 

 

if the location of the marker on the metal tang is the same with or without the boot. Too little pressure will allow the boot to fall out of the binding when not necessary, but won't cause the binding to fail to open.

 

Interestingly, if you took that ski with a boot in the binding, put it on a flat surface and pressed down, the white arrow line might end up between the green lines.

post #24 of 45

@MastersRacer @Jacques

 

When putting the heel in it does "move" but only slightly and after its in all the way the position looks about the same.  In the final position the indicator line (white arrow )is not between the range indicators (green lines) from the pic.

 

So I'm not crazy, they are wrong.

 

Thanks,

 

Tim 

post #25 of 45

No, like I said. His stuff got stolen so this is a completely new setup for him.

post #26 of 45

Proof..

 

post #27 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by vtski75 View Post
 

Proof..

 

The manufacture know best!  Nice work.  Without correct forward pressure the bindings will not release correctly.

post #28 of 45

was just wondering this same thing but for Look Pivots.  they adjust different, hard to tell

post #29 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by onemoreclick View Post
 

was just wondering this same thing but for Look Pivots.  they adjust different, hard to tell


Detailed photos needed.  :worthless

post #30 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacques View Post
 


Detailed photos needed.  :worthless

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