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Video critique - do your worst!

post #1 of 34
Thread Starter 
I've got 4 video clips of me from the end of last season. Certainly I've found plenty wrong with my technique already, but I want to turn it over to the trained eyes.

As for conditions, the groomer and bumps were soft spring conditions. Dropping into that steep section was pretty icy (by Western standards anyway) up top, then gets soft below the traverse. The chute was pretty soft and light but bumped out.

For those of us with sloooowww connections, i'd recommend downloading the "Bumps2" version of the clip in the bumps. Little bit lower resolution and a lot smaller file. Alright, let's hear it!

Anyone wanna name the mountain?

Groomer (1.48 MB)

Chute (.98 MB)

Steep (1.05 MB)

Bumps (low resolution 1.04 MB)

Bumps (hi resolution 2.5 MB)
post #2 of 34
Nice comfort with the skis on the snow in various conditions. The skis never panic. Place an emphasis on your core - to stabilize your center. Snug (not tighten) the abs/gluts (create a more disciplined 'pillar'). Will provide a nicer lateral posture, and eventually a brisker turn transition in shorter turns. Will also create the opportunity to improve your ability to link your turns with a tempo. Will also assist in stabilizing the link through your hands and again create opportunities for more dynamic/less passive linking.

PS? How old are your boots and how much room do your feet have within the shell without the liners?
post #3 of 34
Thread Starter 
i'm not having trouble seeing the clips, but are other folks having trouble with any of them?


the boots are certainly the weakest part of my gear. they're about 4 years old now. the shell fit is correct, but they're probably a wee bit packed out, stretched out. i also bought them when i was just a beginner, so i didn't really know what i was doing. i had nice footbeds made this year (thanks AC, did 'em at squaw) and did the whole canting thing too. the guy doing my canting said no matter what i'd do to 'em i'd have some trouble with the boots cuz he couldn't change the cuff adjustment enough. for reference, they're salamon evolution 9.0's


we should definately hang. my buddies and i always get together and get the cheap cheap cheap kirk passes and ski our butts off all winter at the wood.
post #4 of 34
I cannot access any of them. I get a message asking for a user name, password and account. I tried 'copy link to clipboard' and that did the same thing.

post #5 of 34
I can't seem to pull them up. The player opens but I just get a grey screen. Could be my system.
post #6 of 34

I can see the videos. Looks like nice spring conditions. You have come a long way in your skiing in four years. It's probably time for new boots, footbeds, the whole schmear. Also, do you feel your turns are fairly symmetrical, or do you have a stronger side?

Nice o-frame in the bumps. I especially like the second section when you let the skis run with the fall line--I see relaxed, smooth, flowing movements.

Good control in the chute and the steep section.

All in all, very strong skiing with some room for improvement. I'll wait to hear your answer to my question before going on.
post #7 of 34
Thread Starter 
Sorry to those who are having trouble with the video. If you have quicktime, it shouldn't be a problem. Otherwise, I'm not quite sure what's happening. They're not password protected so that part confuses me a little bit. I'll try to figure something out.


the asymmetry of my turns was the very first thing i noticed when i looked at these. i think it's especially noticeable on the big wide groomer. i had some sense beforehand that my turns weren't exactly the same, but was quite surprised at how different they were.

so the short answer is, yes, i feel a lot stronger turning left. i'll angulate more and commit more weight to my outside ski. that said, the fact that i'm more comfortable doesn't mean it's making those left turns better in every respect. i know nowadays we're trying to distribute our weight more evenly, but turning left i always throw almost all my weight to the outside ski. at the same time, i'm matching the edge angle with my inside ski better and getting more angulation. more (maybe too much) counter as well.

thanks everyone for the comments [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img] keep 'em coming
post #8 of 34
Look at your bump run. What do you see?
post #9 of 34
wow. cool vid. love the STEEP. thanks, elouns.
post #10 of 34
are your poles too long? looks like it in chute & steeps
post #11 of 34
Thread Starter 

poles too long? maybe, but i think it may have more to do with me hunching over in the bumps and at the end of every turn in that steep section. maybe if i was absorbing more with my legs and was standing a little taller my poles would seem the right length. you could be right, after one of my poles disappeared through the middle of last season i bought poles a shade longer. perhaps i was in error


i'm struggling with this one. i see lots of things on the bump run, but it's difficult to pick up a pattern of how turns one way are consistently different than the other. i'll give it a shot though:

when i'm initiating turns on the bumps here, it looks like i'm really reaching out far with my right pole but just sorta put the left pole down by my side almost. it also looks like i'm checking my speed every time i turn left and letting the skis run more when i'm turning right. check, glide, check, glide. am i on the right track here or just making things up?


glad you like it!
post #12 of 34
Well the mountain is the easy part : .There is nothing like a sunny spring day at the "WOOD"!The icy drop in on the WALL isn't quite as fun, but it sure beats skiing with the tourist at heavenly Anyway, I am by no means a level 4 ski instructor, but to me overall i think your balance and technique is pretty solid. Maybe focus on driving your inside ski to help finish your turn. The real question is when are we going to billy goat around in THUNDER SADDLE. Keep on charging and having fun! If you want, send me a PM and we can hook up this winter [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img] I will watch your video again, and post a better critique at a later date. Trees are my friend
post #13 of 34
steeps and chute dont work.

You ski a lot like I do in the bumps. I'm not a technical expert so I really don't have a lot to say.
post #14 of 34
They all work for me now-go figure...

Good skiing (I am not an instructor)

I would try to involve your arms a little more in the groomers with pole plants. Just a tap would do. You do it well in the chute.

The steeps were good but I always wanted you to turn sooner with less of a traverse. You don't have to wait, just fall over your skis and let them come around to catch you. This may be personal preference, who knows?

You have learned to extend your legs into the troughs during the bumb section. Good job.
post #15 of 34
Nice skiing, elouns.

I noticed that you use your hands with palms facing out, which tucks your elbows in, making for an awkward poles swing. Try to have your fists in position as if you were boxing rather than slapping, it makes for more precise pole work.

But that is a minor thing, fine tuning of all your skiing comes with time.

post #16 of 34
You have a good eye, elouns. Take a closer look at where in the turn the right/left pole touch happen.

What changed between the first half and the second half of the run?
post #17 of 34
Thread Starter 
thanks y'all, i've watched this a million times but fresh eyes can always point out things i'd never seen before


i've always wondered what you're supposed to do with your poles when you're making bigger faster turns. is there consensus on the issue? i always think of a super G racer, and at least in my mind, they don't use their poles much. ?

yeah, looks like i got a little hung up between turns in that steep part, especially towards the bottom of the icy section above the traverse. i was trying to aim for spots to make turns up there and there weren't too many good ones. might have been a failure of tactics there, either didn't plan my turns far enough in advance or didn't execute them in the right spot


that's a great tip! i knew my pole action was a little weird, but i wasn't quite sure what needed to change. that'll work beautifully


it seems that i plant my left pole too late, after the next turn is already getting going. kind of as an afterthought. that sound right? should i think of driving more down the hill with my left hand as i start the turn?

the second half of this run does look a lot different. maybe the bumps or the slope had mellowed so i wasn't worrying as much about checking my speed. in any event, i should work on controlling speed more fluently than i am now. that is, more leg absorbtion-extension, rounder turns.
post #18 of 34
Yes. Look at the steeps run. Do you see a similar pattern to the bumps run? But do you also see something that is more subtle in the bumps run that happens after you plant your left pole?

EDIT: I think the second half of the bumps were higher quality skiing: you had a better line (less meandering) and better FTB (feel, timing, balance), especially timing. In general, you appeared like you were having a bit of fun there, whereas the first turns were a bit staged. It gets higher points for tactics, technique, and fun factor.

You are teaching yourself very well. Your prescriptions for change are very astute. Keep going.

[ October 18, 2002, 04:07 PM: Message edited by: nolo ]
post #19 of 34
Thread Starter 
thanks nolo, you're leading me in good directions. i do see that pattern again in the steeps clip, ESPECIALLY down below the traverse. it's pretty obvious there. anything i can think about or do to improve symmetry?

i'm having a bit more trouble seeing the subtle point you're talking about after my left pole plant. hmmmmm, i just looked again and maybe i'm letting my upper body turn to the left (stay with my left pole) right after i plant it. yes? would that be improved if i was planting earlier? as it is, it seems that my left pole is kinda getting in the way and hanging me up as i initiate the next turn. i hadn't really noticed that before
post #20 of 34
Nolo, you commented on the "O frame" in the bumps. It looks to me like it's occurring on the front face, going up. If this indicates both skis on their outside edges, or neutral, of what value is this move here? This move came up in an other recent thread and I'd suspect that many of us are unfamiliar with this move and its value in the turn.
post #21 of 34
Thread Starter 
I'm not familiar with the concept of the o-frame... help?
post #22 of 34
I think the timing of your left pole plant is throwing you off, causing slight rotation of left turns, and somewhat closed position at the end of turn. Check A-frame at end of left turns, skidding, etc. As you see, this left-sided weakness weakens your left turns (aha!). Maybe they feel stronger because you're on your right foot and you're right footed?

I think a boot that allows more range of motion in your ankle joints would be the simple solution to other issues in your skiing, which come from compensating for lack of ankle flexion. More mobility of the foot and ankle will allow you to pull back the inside foot and get better feel and guidance in your groomed cruising. I will say that a more patient release would allow you to shape the top of your arc and lay down rounder more continuous tracks. The chief thing to strive for in your longer radius turns is continuity: total motion through all points of your line. You will find that pole swing will help this. A goal I have is to move the basket at the same tempo as my feet to prevent a quick pole swing on a slow turn.
post #23 of 34
The o is a sign of an early release of the new inside ski. I am commending elouns on it. Nice 0-frame on the turns to the left, as elouns noted about his left turns. Turns to the right are compromised by closed position at end of left turns. I'm talking about the bump run.
post #24 of 34
Thread Starter 

that makes a tremendous amount of sense to me (here i am in my living room, skiing on the hardwood floors). the part about the finish of my left turns is kind of an epiphany for me. thanks a ton

one other question about the ankle flexion thingy. is it possible that it might have something to do with me rather than my boots? at the very end of the season, just the last couple days, i was thinking a little about my feet and ankles, and this is what i came up with:

i think that in my efforts to have my weight forward and pressing more through the balls of my feet than my heel, i actually end up getting in the back seat. the problem being that i push through my toes (using my calves) and thus push my weight back as my toes point. i read somethign on this forum about still feelign the weight at the front of your foot without changing the angle between your foot and lower leg. i tried skiing without pushing so much with my toes and had some success. i'm not sure i've explained this very well, but does that make any sense?
post #25 of 34
elouns, this is what I said in another thread:

>>>Ott Gangl
EpicSki Supporter

Member # 549

- posted September 14, 2002 10:31 AM

>>>The advice was that I have to be on the balls of my feet when skiing (and especially when initiating turns). Well, I followed that advice and that action flexed my ankles which made my shins go back and the body followed<<<

Tom, though with the event of shorter and shaped skis it is no longer the way to ski, it used to be sound advice to have an athletic stance, like a tennis or basketball player, full foot in contact, with a bias toward the ball of the foot for imidiate readiness to react, and the ski's balanace point was under the balls of the foot.

Your mistake, and especially the instructors mistake, was of him not to tell you HOW to put your weight over the balls of your feet, and of you not understanding it.

The correct way was/is, while doing nothing esle, to move the hips a couple of inches forward so that your body weight rests over the balls of your feet. The WRONG way is to press down on the balls of your feet rocking your back.

If you just stand up now in front of your computer, flatfooted, you can try the above and see: just rock forward a couple of inches and your weight will be over the balls of your feet, but if you press down on the ball of your feet you will fall over backward.

Any good instructor should have made that clear to you right off.


P.S..that same thing will help anybody who has trouble with skiing in the back seat. Just relax your ankles and move your hip bones, thus your body weight, a couple of inches toward the ski tips and stay there. Use your feet for edge control, not fore/aft balance.<<<
post #26 of 34

Ott is quite right, and you may have hit the nail on the head as to why you are absorbing shocks higher up the body than is efficient. I'm kind of a nut about softer boots because it's made such a big difference in my skiing. : It was fun working with you. I hope you have a great season. And I think I'm going to have to visit Kirkwood some time.
post #27 of 34
Thread Starter 
thanks a lot nolo, you've been a big help. post something if you're gonna be out my way. ott, your old post was exactly what i was talking about. thanks
post #28 of 34
I had to install QuickTime to see the videos bye the way. For a person that only skied for 4 years, this is some outstanding skiing elouns. You have come a long way in a short time, no doubt. [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

Let’s get down to business, however [img]graemlins/evilgrin.gif[/img] . Why don’t we ask the instructors on this board to give us an indication of the Ski School Level that elouns currently should have. Clearly he would be a Level 8-9 with the Aspen Test. I don’t doubt that any school would place him in the Level 8-9 group. But does that make sense?

I will take a first shot, based on my own, amateur opinions. Despite the advanced and expert terrain that elouns can obviously ski, I do not base my rating on that. These videos are a great demonstration of style versus terrain. I think that Elouns has done a better job on the steeps than on the groomer. In fact, had I seen the shute and steeps videos only I would probably rate elouns as a Level 7. In other words, he would have a chance to pass Level I instructor with some additional training and more refined skills. But then I saw the groomer video and I had a different opinion. On the groomer elouns looked a little static, with stiff legs and no pole (touch) action. True, he was skiing fast, long turns, but the body English was all wrong. I would have rated elouns a Level 6, had I only seen the groomer video. I would love to see elouns do quick, short SL turns. That would give a better indication of his style on groomers.

Anyway, I do not mean to diminish elouns’ impressive skiing. Because IT IS impressive. I am interested however to understand if elouns would be ready for Level I instructor certification (or what I call true Level 7).
post #29 of 34

"i've always wondered what you're supposed to do with your poles when you're making bigger faster turns. is there consensus on the issue? i always think of a super G racer, and at least in my mind, they don't use their poles much. ?"

Maintain pole touch timing rhythm in long turns with a basket touch - reaching forward, bringing the pole to vertical and touching the pole tip may cause the pole to jump/flail at higher speeds. Instead, with hands dynamically forward throughout the entire turn for balance, trigger the new turn with a subtle swing of the pole with your wrist- touch the basket to the snow, just behind the feet, with the pole pointing slightly back. Balance/upper body orientation is maintained, and your timing trigger is still intact.

[ October 19, 2002, 05:10 AM: Message edited by: Whygimf ]
post #30 of 34

You are right for the reasons explained by Ott

To get your wieght forward and to increase the range of motion in your ankle pull your toes up. The bootfiting gurus have decided that effective skiing requires a 12 degree range in dorsiflexion (toes towards the shin). If you don't have that range getting forward can be more difficult. The fix is to insert a heel lift in your boot thus allowing you a 12 degree range of motion.

BY pulling your toes up you effectively close the ankle joint pushing the knee forward as you flex. The kinesthetic chain will then involve the knees, hips, and spign as the terrain dictates. AS you extend into the trough start the movement by straightening your ankle. The u ndoing will once again develop from the feet up and follow the kinesthtic chan. THe thought process with this varies on an individual basis, but the idea is to push down slighlty forward of the heal.

Before making the descision that your boots are too stiff play around with the power strap and top two buckles. If they are loose there will be no softer boot available. Please remember that loose is an extreme and not for normal skiing. If you make a few turns with unrestricited range of motion and then losely buckle the boots you may find that you automotically increase the range once you have felt it.

[ October 19, 2002, 06:44 AM: Message edited by: Tom Burch ]
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