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Looking for some bump advice

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 
So I was able to get a few short clips of myself the other day.

I am looking for any advice people out there may have with a lot of knowledge on this part of the hill(any technical advice on how to make my line tighter).

I can go out and get more video if needed.

post #2 of 24
 explain tighter? more in the fall line? 

do you want rounded lines? or straight down the fall line or a combo of both?
post #3 of 24
Thread Starter 
I'm thinking more of a straight zipperline type line.

Also if anyone has some training drills that may be effective and easy on the knees?, I'm looking for some of those.
post #4 of 24
C,

These turns show a lot of promise for future zipper line skiing. I like the stable upper body, the round turns via smooth countinious lower body movements in the first few turns and the absoption used in turns from 7-10 seconds. In the second clip, you're a little in the back seat and use some upper body tipping to help you turn. In both clips you use a "curb feeler" type pole position (i.e. poles angled away from the body at 45 degrees verus being parallel to the upper body). That's the easiest thing to work on in your quest for zipper line skiing. Think vertical fists instead of horizontal fists. Use pole touches more like they are when you pass the camera in the second clip vs after you pass the camera.

In general, transitioning these turns into zipper line turns means using getting your skis angled out of the fall line as a means of speed control less and using more absorption/extension for speed control instead. It's possible to ski the rut line this way if the bumps are well formed, but often you'll need to create extra turns and be more adept at making turns outside of the rut line (e.g. turning off the sides of the bumps). Some people can learn this by just doing it. Other people face a "catch 22" where they can't see the line to take until they do it and they can't do it until they can see it. You may find that following an experienced bumper is the fastest path to success. If you force your self to keep your upper body on an absolutely straight line down the fall line, interesting things will happen.

Here are three drills you can work on:
Pivot slips - to get that feeling of a solid center with the legs turning underneath it
High speed bump traverses - keep the skis glued to the snow
Tip tap traverses - to get centered via ankle movements

Tip tap traverses are traversing acrossing the hill while lifting the tail of one ski and repeatedly tapping the ski tip on the snow. Start with the uphill ski. The do the downhill ski. Do them first on a groomed run. Then do them in bumps. Then link the traverses in the bumps by tipping the lifted downhill ski to initiate the turn. Then shortern the traverses. When you can do a zipper line at slow speed with a lifted and tipped inside ski, then you are centered enough to do absorption effectively.

It's easier to make the transition from these turns to true zipper line turns on flatter terrain. If you can't find flatter, smaller moguls, then find a zipper line on an angle to the fall line and work that.

post #5 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by therusty View Post

C,

These turns show a lot of promise for future zipper line skiing. I like the stable upper body, the round turns via smooth countinious lower body movements in the first few turns and the absoption used in turns from 7-10 seconds. In the second clip, you're a little in the back seat and use some upper body tipping to help you turn. In both clips you use a "curb feeler" type pole position (i.e. poles angled away from the body at 45 degrees verus being parallel to the upper body). That's the easiest thing to work on in your quest for zipper line skiing. Think vertical fists instead of horizontal fists. Use pole touches more like they are when you pass the camera in the second clip vs after you pass the camera.

In general, transitioning these turns into zipper line turns means using getting your skis angled out of the fall line as a means of speed control less and using more absorption/extension for speed control instead. It's possible to ski the rut line this way if the bumps are well formed, but often you'll need to create extra turns and be more adept at making turns outside of the rut line (e.g. turning off the sides of the bumps). Some people can learn this by just doing it. Other people face a "catch 22" where they can't see the line to take until they do it and they can't do it until they can see it. You may find that following an experienced bumper is the fastest path to success. If you force your self to keep your upper body on an absolutely straight line down the fall line, interesting things will happen.

Here are three drills you can work on:
Pivot slips - to get that feeling of a solid center with the legs turning underneath it
High speed bump traverses - keep the skis glued to the snow
Tip tap traverses - to get centered via ankle movements

Tip tap traverses are traversing acrossing the hill while lifting the tail of one ski and repeatedly tapping the ski tip on the snow. Start with the uphill ski. The do the downhill ski. Do them first on a groomed run. Then do them in bumps. Then link the traverses in the bumps by tipping the lifted downhill ski to initiate the turn. Then shortern the traverses. When you can do a zipper line at slow speed with a lifted and tipped inside ski, then you are centered enough to do absorption effectively.

It's easier to make the transition from these turns to true zipper line turns on flatter terrain. If you can't find flatter, smaller moguls, then find a zipper line on an angle to the fall line and work that.


Great post TR. Where you been in all our other discussions?

Only thing I want to say is an easy tip that may help, Hold the pole like you are holding a pistol, with your finger on the trigger.

(it's easier to get a mental picture of that) of course when I say holding a pistol, I mean the Cowboy way, not the gangbanger way.
post #6 of 24
Hey, was that clip shot on "The Burn"? At Copper?

Looks like it. Love that run as it's a great mid pitch leg burner with nicely spaced bumps and a great run to work on technique.
post #7 of 24
Thread Starter 
Not the burn unfortunately, took them over in reso after coming out of the spaulding trees.

Do you guys think a shorter pole will help me with my pole work?
post #8 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cphillips View Post

I'm thinking more of a straight zipperline type line.

Also if anyone has some training drills that may be effective and easy on the knees?, I'm looking for some of those.
 



I can't see your vid for some reason (anyone? i just see a blank spot on the page) but something I've found useful is to slightly traverse the fall line back and forth...not perpendicular, but enough to affect your speed until you perfect whatever piece you're working on.  Once you get loose and you have your technique down, gradually tighten up your line.
post #9 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cphillips View Post

Not the burn unfortunately, took them over in reso after coming out of the spaulding trees.

Do you guys think a shorter pole will help me with my pole work?
 


Not really. i think it's more grip, and where you plant your pole, not the length. Always keep your hands in front and don't let them get behind your COM.
post #10 of 24
 Rusty has the first stuff nailed IMO. Also you actually totally miss poles plants in the first clip, and any pole plant you do make is way after the actually edge change of you skis (IE your really not doing anything with the pole touch). Along the same lines your transition is side to side with no forward movement and because of all of this your movement inside of the new turn is kinda of weak..

there is alot to work on here, ALOT. but with this said the first simple thing Ill add to rusty's comments is in all of your turns; bumps. powder, groomers, whatever, is to pole touch earlier and when you touch your pole start swinging your other arm right after. this will stop the miss pole plants and also get your to move down the hill better and keep you from being balance aft.

take some time, ski some more bumps and come back to us.
post #11 of 24
although camera perspective can mislead the eye, you look somewhat hunched over to me,
 meaning your thighs are putting your hips back of your feet, and breaking at the waist is putting
your shoulders forward.

by skiing taller, you can absorb more  by letting the knees rise up (and rise up higher since you are not winged at the waist)

this also ties into the traverse drill and keeping you skis on the snow. as you clear the bump with the feet, you can
get the tips back on the snow on the backside of the mogul.

one other thing about the zipperline:  you need to accept that you will be going much faster, which means if (when?) you lose your line that can be a bit harrier than if you lose your line at a slower pace / more rounded line.

(and take Karpys Bumpbuster clinic at copper - very well worth it)

looks like great conditions to play in
post #12 of 24
Nice skiing. Why do zipper-turns ?
Ride the two-dimension carving radius of your skis in three-dimensions. Use two or three bumps per turn and get lots of lateral displacement across the hill. If you need to, air a trough or two, and keep a big arc.
Incline, counter, absorb, extend and increase the amount of steering force. 
Don't give up the great performance of modern ski equipment to ski like you are on straight skis. Skis don't go sideways... unless they 'need' to.
Modern mogul comps are stylized and contrived and this is a skill needed if the carving ski's natural arc won't fit the bumps., but these guys are not on modern skis, are they ?.     
post #13 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by g-force View Post

Why do zipper-turns ? ......

 

Why ask why?  Because it can be done ....even with shaped skis. 


Going back to the direct line,  a more pragmatic point in skiing direct is the tremendous benefits in the glades and in narrow non groomed narrow trails which are still hallmarked in some New England ski resorts,

to the op, do the drills as explained however, biggest thing I see is that you're slightly dropping the hip into the turns to get the angulation for the skis. To ski more direct, you have to rely more on knee angulation. IMO, doing short radius turns on the groomers is a must just to ski direct in general. Here's two vids which great short radius turns, notice the knee angulation. IMO, a lost technique due to shaped skis and agressive over grooming.



post #14 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by g-force View Post

Nice skiing. Why do zipper-turns ?
Ride the two-dimension carving radius of your skis in three-dimensions. Use two or three bumps per turn and get lots of lateral displacement across the hill. If you need to, air a trough or two, and keep a big arc.
Incline, counter, absorb, extend and increase the amount of steering force. 
Don't give up the great performance of modern ski equipment to ski like you are on straight skis. Skis don't go sideways... unless they 'need' to.
Modern mogul comps are stylized and contrived and this is a skill needed if the carving ski's natural arc won't fit the bumps., but these guys are not on modern skis, are they ?.     



please come ski at stowe with me!! I want to see you incline down goat! it would be the most modern form of sliding ever. I cant do it but if you can that would be awesome you be much better than me well at least in your mind
post #15 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by docbrad66 View Post

although camera perspective can mislead the eye, you look somewhat hunched over to me,
 meaning your thighs are putting your hips back of your feet, and breaking at the waist is putting
your shoulders forward.

by skiing taller, you can absorb more  by letting the knees rise up (and rise up higher since you are not winged at the waist)

this also ties into the traverse drill and keeping you skis on the snow. as you clear the bump with the feet, you can
get the tips back on the snow on the backside of the mogul.

one other thing about the zipperline:  you need to accept that you will be going much faster, which means if (when?) you lose your line that can be a bit harrier than if you lose your line at a slower pace / more rounded line.

(and take Karpys Bumpbuster clinic at copper - very well worth it)

looks like great conditions to play in

you can zipperline at a snail pace if you want to....

skiing the fast line slow is a very lost art and is something that is very much needed sometimes.
post #16 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post




you can zipperline at a snail pace if you want to....

skiing the fast line slow is a very lost art and is something that is very much needed sometimes.
 



I ski almost exclusively at Jane and see many different lines and techniques in the bumps.  While the fast zipperline is exciting to watch, one of the best skiers I see there IMO is a girl that does the slow zipperline and skis the Challenger runs top to bottom in one bite.  I take a slow, steady pace that meanders around the fall line but it still takes me a couple of chomps to finish off those long steep runs.
post #17 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post




you can zipperline at a snail pace if you want to....

skiing the fast line slow is a very lost art and is something that is very much needed sometimes.
 

to me, zipperline means the skiers torso essentially takes a straight path from start to finish.
not sure how to do that in a mogul field at a snails pace

fast line slow:  i see lots of 6-8 year olds in a braking wedge going straight down the hill.  somehow i dont think that is what you mean...
post #18 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by docbrad66 View Post

to me, zipperline means the skiers torso essentially takes a straight path from start to finish.
not sure how to do that in a mogul field at a snails pace
You can remove much speed by breaking on the backside of the bumps. Also the more you turn the skis in the zipperline the more you'll break.
post #19 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by docbrad66 View Post




to me, zipperline means the skiers torso essentially takes a straight path from start to finish.
not sure how to do that in a mogul field at a snails pace

fast line slow:  i see lots of 6-8 year olds in a braking wedge going straight down the hill.  somehow i dont think that is what you mean...

pivoting and or very short turns with my body going straight down the hill, you can control speed by skidding, deflection, how you absorb, how fast you move your feet, blocking pole plants.

I really dont need to go super slow but can when I want. I actually prefer to cruise.
post #20 of 24
Thread Starter 
So I have been mostly working on the pole planting since I posted the last video.  Personally I have been feeling much more comfortable since I started focusing on the pole plants.  At this point I know there are more things I need to start focusing.  Hoping someone can pick apart some of my lines from this video.  Thanks again to everyone giving advice, its good to have some direction on this part of the mountain.

post #21 of 24
Pretty good Craig. Looks like you're having fun.

what do I see? You're reaching just a little too far to make your pole plant, and you're jabbing in the pole to balance, then holding on to the pole plant a little too long as your hands are ending up near your hips. Which can get you backseat. It's almost like you are using the poles like crutches instead of timing. Thus you will find yourself missing a pole plant and getting out of sync and balance. Right?

Quick hands make quick feet and visaversa. Ever see a sprinter swinging his hands? They are never swinging slower or faster than his feet and strides are they? Same with bump skiing. Your feet and skis will determine where and when you plant your poles, instead of your poles determining where and when you turn your skis and feet. The faster you ski, the quicker your pole touches will be. And that's all they should be are touches on the tops of the bumps as you ski by them. Moreso from the wrist though not from the arm.

So, keep your hands in front, a little higher. Hold them like a pistol, flick the pole and release the tip from the snow instead of letting your hand drop down as you ski by. This will keep you forward in a stack position leaning down the hill instead of back in a defensive position.

One other thing, it looks like you are leaving the falline to chase the line because of mogul spacing. Instead of jumping to the side, either throw in another turn where there is no bump, or get some air. It helps keep the rythym going. I hope this isn't too much information to absorb. There's more to work on but try this next time you're out.
post #22 of 24
 chris your constantly aft in your video. Lars has some good point about your hands but I am not entirely sure how much of the backseat driving is due to that. I personally think that the pole touching thats stab like is a effect of you being back and not the other way around.

aft isn such a bad place to be some of the time but all of the time is tiring and the turns just arent as good as they could be if you were to explore the entire range of balance for and aft on your skis.

the simplest tip i can give you is each time you crest the bumps get your body moving forwards and your tips driving down the hill/backside of the bump. back pedal/dolphin your feet on each bump and you should be able to accomplish not being aft all the ways down the run.

the back pedaling



I actually believe in this picture the skier in question could have used more ankle flexion, but he is a WCer and who am I to doubt him. I sure as hell cant ski bumps like him



and if your crazy and japanese you can build this contraption 



and lastly something you can practice outside of the bumps dolphin turns aka tail to tip leapers. thanks chris fellows for a great video.



 hope these help, good luck and report back with some video


post #23 of 24
Nice Josh.

Craig, notice at 19 seconds where your right hand is, and a few other instances 1:32,you have your hands low and behind your hip. Now notice Josh's stills of the wc bumper, even though he appears to be backseat, his hands are still high and in front of his center of mass, he is still forward absorbing, also notice he releases his pole tip and flicks it instead of arm movement back and forth.
post #24 of 24
Thread Starter 
Thanks a lot for the tips guys.

This advice is really a big help.  I will be working on the flicking rather than crutching, and trying to get myself out of the backseat.  Give me another few weeks and hopefully I will be able to post a refined video.
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