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How do you keep your feet warm on a very cold day out on the slopes? - Page 2

post #31 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdk6 View Post




Yes, please take a photo and post it. Thanks on beforehand.

T

Just cause you've always seemed like a nice guy!

Boot front.jpgboot back.jpg
post #32 of 46
Thanks! I was going to ask the same thing for my wife's boots!
post #33 of 46
Obviously circulation problems need to be addressed first and foremost. Beyond that, the heat moldable foam that intuition uses is a much better insulator than most stock liners.
post #34 of 46
Thread Starter 
SkiMangoJazz - thanks for the great photos. Its a good example of thinking out of the box. I would never have thaught of it. Now I only need to puncture one of my linears and see how it works.

I have now grinded and punched the outside shells and together with my first dobie linear that is comming apart but its very thin I managed 4hours today in -5degC. Now if I can only get the heater in there as well I will be all set for even colder weather. I was skiing with the buckles open except for racing on the course but my boots filled up with snow. Darn. I need to use the boot glowe to cover them up and take them off for the race. BTW, I bought some new socks and they might have something to do with the better fit and staying warm. They are bridgedale ultra fit socks. Anybody ever heared about them?
post #35 of 46
Some good tips here. I'll have to try some of them.

I ski in Dobermanns with the Nordica leather custom foamed liner. It's not a thick or plush liner. It skis very well, but it's cold. I buckle the toe buckle just tight enough to seal the rubber gasket so the boots don't leak. For the first 3 runs, I do not buckle the lower instep buckle. I put the bail in a hook and close the buckle, but it's not actually doing anything. For the first 3 runs, I buckle the upper instep buckle (bottom cuff buckle) on the loosest hook. The top buckle is on the second hook. After 3 runs, I tighten both cuff buckles 1 notch. It's a bit difficult to close them, but I have a small calf, so any looser allows too much movement. I buckle the lower instep buckle just enough to keep the buckle and bail in place. I secure the velcro strap around the liner above the shell.

Done this way, I have nearly zero movement in my lower foot. I can wiggle my toes, but my heel barely gets lighter if I lever forward, and does not come off the footbed at all. Ever. I have adequate movement at the boot top to allow some ankle flex without using up my R.O.M., the back of the liner follows my calf, and I don't get shin bang when skiing bumps.

I do not have to unbuckle my boots until the end of the day. I might loosen them at lunch, but it's not required. Once I'm settled into them for the day, it's painless. There are no red spots or red areas on my feet at the end of the day.

In my opinion, this is the way boots should fit.

Still, it's cold. The Dobie is a low volume boot, and the Nordica foamed liner is thin and dense. It's not really designed for insulation. I don't have any problem most days, but if it's below 20F (-7C), I may start to have trouble, depending on how hard I'm skiing. More turns and more bumps = warmer feet. Fast cruising = cold feet. That's just the way it is.

Since it's irritating if so much as a shoelace is out of place on the outside of the liner, I'm not sure the wire for the heater would work very well. I can't change my socks mid-day, because if I take these boots off when the plastic is cold, they'll have to spend considerable time under a hair dryer or something similar before I can get them on again. And I already have Smartwool socks - the thinnest ones I could find.

I might give some of the other hints a try, though. Especially making double sure my feet are dry and warm to start. I think I've been a little casual about that.
post #36 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdk6 View Post


Can you or somebody else comment on my foot. 
I  have just taken my bots off and you can see some read parts where the boots are very tight. My toes and fore foot goes numb after about 15min of skiing. Its been very warm here lately. Cero deg C so cold has not been an issue. The first two buckles are open.

Looks like you have way too much localized instep pressure to me. I get the same thing when I engage the instep buckle. Once I completely loosen the buckle, I mean rattling loose, then I'm good.  I'm in a 98 volume boot, and I have a high instep as it looks like you do, but I need that fit to keep the heels down.  BTW, it's amazing how much those metatarsal bones flex.

.
post #37 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finndog View Post

if you are using a Hotronic M4, it will fit in any boot.

I love my hotronic M4's


But I had to say, SMJ, you have one scary and creative mind.  
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiMangoJazz View Post




Just cause you've always seemed like a nice guy!

Boot front.jpgboot back.jpg
post #38 of 46
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simplemind View Post




Looks like you have way too much localized instep pressure to me. I get the same thing when I engage the instep buckle. Once I completely loosen the buckle, I mean rattling loose, then I'm good.  I'm in a 98 volume boot, and I have a high instep as it looks like you do, but I need that fit to keep the heels down.  BTW, it's amazing how much those metatarsal bones flex.

.
 

Which exactly is the instep buckle? What are the metatarsal bones? How can bones flex?
post #39 of 46
 That's not my idea, it's the way that Greg Hoffman at Vail does it.
post #40 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdk6 View Post
Which exactly is the instep buckle? What are the metatarsal bones? How can bones flex?
 

The instep buckle is the one just above your red skin area, or the second one up from the toe!

Metatarsal bones are the ones that will break when you drop a 50# rock on top of your foot!  

They are also the ones just under your red skin area, between the toes and the ankle, somewhat held together by the plantar tendons (there is no doubt a better explanation on this site).
post #41 of 46
Thread Starter 
After I widened the toebox, bought a very thin sock, using a thick footbead with built in heater, by unbuckling the instep and toe buckles after each run and by taking my boots off and drying them during lunchbrake I was able to ski all day this past weekend. I was not always using my heaters but my feet did not go numb.

SkiMangoJazz, yes but thanks for telling us about it. Great with options.

Simplemind, thank you very much for the clarification. I have now settled into my boots and found out that its very tight over the instep buckle. Its actually not squeezing my foot as much from the side as it does right down at the instep. I wonder what kind of modification would take care of this problem? A de-crease in ramp I guess. Im now on a footbead that is somewhat thick under the heel because it has the heater built in. My linear is the very old very thin wc linear from my dobies back in 2007. Would a foam linear take care of the tight instep?
post #42 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdk6 View Post

After I widened the toebox, bought a very thin sock

HAHA, I just did that to my boots and went to skiing in knee high nylons. 
My feet are happy and warm......
Oh and I installed hotronics the M4's like Finndog suggested earlier in this thread.
post #43 of 46
I wear a regular nylon sock. It lets the heat escape from your foot warming the inside of the boot. Wearing heavy socks doesn't allow your natural heat to escape & is counter-productive.
post #44 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdk6 View Post
Simplemind, thank you very much for the clarification. I have now settled into my boots and found out that its very tight over the instep buckle. Its actually not squeezing my foot as much from the side as it does right down at the instep. I wonder what kind of modification would take care of this problem? A de-crease in ramp I guess. Im now on a footbead that is somewhat thick under the heel because it has the heater built in. My linear is the very old very thin wc linear from my dobies back in 2007. Would a foam linear take care of the tight instep?

I guess from personal experience and through a good bootfitter I have discovered that the instep buckle is not needed, at least on my 98 volume boots. The next one up, which I will call the ankle buckle is the most important of the four.  It controls a lot of the heel pocket fit. As far as a modification, I'm not a a bootfitter so I can' say, however, I was told the instep fit and the heel pocket fit are the ones you must get right, i.e. shell shape closely matching your particular foot shape. You may have to look at other boots.  FWIW, I have found that leaving the instep buckle loose does not affect my skiing, but then I'm not a racer, or an expert level, ymmv.  Try leaving the instep buckle loose and see what happens, and monitor how your heel stays in the pocket.
post #45 of 46
I'm not a boot fitter, but looking at your pictures tell me pretty clearly that your boots are too tight/small in the arch area.  Simply put, you need more volume there.  You should be able to wear boots for an hour or so and not have red pressure marks like you have on top of your feet.  The answer is to get yourself to a GOOD bootfitter.  You may need accomodations; you may need new boots altogether -- only a skilled bootfitter will be able to answer those questions.
post #46 of 46
When i had a cheapo three-buckle Salvo boots circa 1989 (could not afford better boots till 2008), they were a tad too big for me, and i just used woolen socks on top of thin liner socks.
Then i skied.
It worked for upto minus 36 celsius (i guess it's like -32f?), unless i got tired.

Salvo bootsSalvo back

Now i ski in Dalbello Aerro 80, uncooked liners. Never been out on really cold days in them, but minus 20 celsius feels like minus 32 celsius in old Salvos... My tactic with Dalbellos is to wear thin sock with tourmaline fibers on one leg and a bit thicker wool sock on another (i've about 1.5mm asymmetry on my feet; thus one boot is like 1/2 size too big), no uber-tight buckling, and to ski agressively.
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