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Women's Ski Camps 2010/2011 season - Page 2

post #31 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by segbrown View Post
The other reason I would have for wanting to do an all-female clinic would be to avoid the girls who get silly around men, too. But as far as feeling insecure around guys in a lesson, I don't think so. It's more the camaraderie of other women who aren't trying to talk about scrapbooking.


Yes, there's that too!

post #32 of 40

 

Quote:
 
Originally Posted by segbrown View Post
The other reason I would have for wanting to do an all-female clinic would be to avoid the girls who get silly around men, too. But as far as feeling insecure around guys in a lesson, I don't think so. It's more the camaraderie of other women who aren't trying to talk about scrapbooking.

 I think that's a very large part of it.

 

  • Most (if not all) women behave a little differently when men are present. (Certain things I don't say or do when men are there vs. being myself in the company of other women) So that held back the subject and her classmates.

 

  • In a mixed environment, both men and women do automatically get into a more compatitive mode. Just natural instinct of trying to get attention of the opposite sex, even when we're not meaning to conciously.

 

Both of these gets in the way of learning.

 

For men, most of their skiing buddies are men. Maybe with a few women mixed in, maybe not. So it would never occurr to men to seek out exclusively men-only ski group!

 

But for women, most of our skiing buddies are MEN! Only some smaller number of lucky ladies have a all-female ski group. So it's only natural some of us may seek out all-female days spend on snow.

 

Did anyone notice the original poster never came back btw?

post #33 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by nolo View Post

It would be interesting to delve into this topic without the sexism. If women prefer to be with their own gender in learning situations, why? Is it all learning, or just sports? Is it all sports or just skiing?

 

I do think (in)equality is the heart of the matter. Learning makes you vulnerable. Women are not comfortable showing their vulnerability to men, whereas there's almost a sense of one-upping when it comes to showing their vulnerability to other women. I'm sure an anthropologist could shed some light on the social dynamics of women's only ski groups. All I know is, there's something very empowering about being in a women's group, and ski pros should accept it as the gift it is: there's no demographic group more likely to take a group lesson than women, if you make it women-only. 





Quote:
Originally Posted by rachelv View Post

As someone who works in software development (about 50 people in my group right now, 4 of which are women) and skis a lot, I can definitely say that I would love more gender balance in all things. smile.gif

 

For me it's not about vulnerability at all. Unfortunately, it's hard to have conversations like this without making sweeping generalizations, but for me it just comes down to the fact that there's a very different vibe when you're talking about a group of women vs. a group of men. Both have their good points and bad points, but I spend *a lot* of time in environments that are mostly dudes, and sometimes I just really crave the vibe you get from a group of women.

 

That said, JH offers a women's camp, though I've never done it myself:

http://www.jacksonhole.com/lessons-guides/camps/women-ski-camp.html

 


 




Quote:
Originally Posted by nolo View Post

Maybe you aren't vulnerable when you are in a learning situation, RachelV, but for most people, learning means admitting you don't know, and for some people, that's letting your guard down. There are legions of people who can't learn a damn thing because they already know it all (or can't/won't admit that they don't, really). It's a severe learning disability for which the only remedy is humility. 





Quote:
Originally Posted by SugarCube View Post

 

Maybe it's due to my age, but I don't worry too much about admitting when I don't know something or how to do something.  There's so much I don't know, so why not 'fess up?  Nolo, I know what you're referring to regarding humility.  I teach corporate VPs and leaders all the time who have to be oh-so-gently coaxed into opening their minds to take in a new idea or two.

 

Like Rachelv, I want to avoid making broad generalizations, but will offer my meager two-cent opinion.  If I ever do another ski camp, it would probably be another all-ladies event for the same reasons others have shared.  I think women get the "fear" thing a bit better (hark: a broad generalization!) and may be a tad more patient too.  Learning to ski with other women, I found, was a really enjoyable and successful time.

 

My skiing goals are just that: my goals. And how we all seek to achieve them will vary as do our learning preferences, pocketbooks, geography, and a host of other variables.


Like Rachelv, I want to avoid making broad generalizations, but will add some experience from my work place and ski learning history.....

I've had about 4 jobs throughout my life (so far) and all of them have been male dominant with the exception of the waitressing job I had in high school.

I learned early on that humility(not to be confused with being humiliated)  is a strong asset no matter what you're learning, and no matter what you're selling (in this case you're selling ski coaching).

 

It may be easier for a woman to learn in an environment where she feels that she is on a level playing field and she may not feel that in a cross gender clinic(race camp) however the work place has set many of us up for good results no matter where we learn or who we learn with.

 

I, for one, find that the interaction with men and women in a clinic group has made no specific difference to my learning experience one way or the other.

 

 

post #34 of 40

 

 

Quote:
I, for one, find that the interaction with men and women in a clinic group has made no specific difference to my learning experience one way or the other.

And yet, I am quite certain that your interaction with the men and women in your group made a huge difference in their enjoyment of the day. 

post #35 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by nolo View Post

 

 

And yet, I am quite certain that your interaction with the men and women in your group made a huge difference in their enjoyment of the day. 



Entertaining for sure. 

post #36 of 40

I attended the Rippin' Chix clnic last year in Crested Butte. Alison does an amazing job. This year the camps are in Silverton, Aspen Highlands, Wintergreen & Alta.  I plan on going to the clinic in @ Aspen Highlands in March. http://www.alisongannett.com/Alison_Gannett/Rippin_Chix_Ski.html Wendy Fischer & Kim Reichhelm also have women camps in Crested Butte.

 

 

 

post #37 of 40

Gender behavior in ski clinics is an interesting topic.  I am not a fan of all woman groups at upper level skiing clinics.  I have found there to be lots of competition for attention of the instructor and little patience for the slower, more timid members of the group. Good instructors can deal with this dynamic but some of the male instrutors realize it is happening.  I am sure this is not all women's clinics, I am just reporting what I have observed in the clinics I have attended. 

 

I teach quite a few beginner skiers.  I love teaching all women's groups because it does appear to me that women are much less intimidated and much more supportive of each other without men in the group.

post #38 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by nolo View Post

It would be interesting to delve into this topic without the sexism. If women prefer to be with their own gender in learning situations, why? Is it all learning, or just sports? Is it all sports or just skiing?

 

I do think (in)equality is the heart of the matter. Learning makes you vulnerable. Women are not comfortable showing their vulnerability to men, whereas there's almost a sense of one-upping when it comes to showing their vulnerability to other women. I'm sure an anthropologist could shed some light on the social dynamics of women's only ski groups. All I know is, there's something very empowering about being in a women's group, and ski pros should accept it as the gift it is: there's no demographic group more likely to take a group lesson than women, if you make it women-only. 

 

I actually find the complete opposite to be true. I find in mixed groups that women tend to be more comfortable with learning, with asking questions than men are. And in fact, this can sometimes cause men to get a little impatient...which then leads to women cutting back on questions.  And then a women's only clinic becomes very enticing. In fact I would argue the guys get impatient because they don't want to seem vulnerable for not knowing. 

 

I think this occurs more with intermediate level skiers. In fact I think that what happens at this level stems from the men thinking they are better than they are, so they just want to push forward, while the women think they are worse than they are so they want to get better.

 

At the higher levels, I think the women have more confidence in their ability and the men have more realistic view of theirs, and so mixed may actually work better.

 


Yes, I realize this is a gross generalization!  But I've seen it in other sports and in work situations as well. 

 

But then there's the social part. Personally I enjoy mixed company - always have. But I definitely understand those who prefer hanging with groups of other women. 

 

Elsbeth

post #39 of 40

Rippin Chix was my first time at an all girl's camp. It was an absolutely amazing experience and I highly recommend it, although they are not doing CB this year. (and I'm old so, you can do it at 51 no prob) But it's selling out. Be warned, it is not for the feint of heart. 

 

I believe Kit DesLauriers does a woman's camp (or did) focused on back-country skills. Then there's Kim Reichhlem's camps, including a heli camp in Alaska. As has been noted, Jackson has a woman's version of steep and deep. Snowbird has one with Mermer Blakeslee advertised this year and Steamboat with Deb Armstrong. And Ingrid Backstrom at Squaw. Each of these will have a very different focus and intention, so it would behoove the OP to do some web surfing to see what fits her bill best.

 

I love free skiing with my male ski buddies. But it is different in a class. It seems like bi-gender learning situations are more likely to be competitive (and not just the men in them). I did not have any sense of that with the all-girl groups. Everyone was supportive of each other, both in the sense of encouragement and patience, but also in the sense of pushing and encouraging courage.

post #40 of 40

If you're still looking for a woman's ski camps, there's an really great one in Whistler this 2011 season.  Small groups of max 4 per instructor.  Highest level coaching but personalized to every woman's ability and goals for the camp.  Accommodations at the Fairmont Chateau Whistler, spa privileges, apres tour and shopping tour all included.  The apres gets you best seats at all the top apres spots.  I highly recommend it.. called Champagne Ski Camps offered through Whistler Sports Academy.

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