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Mogul Technique Survey - Page 5

Poll Results: Do you want to look and ski like the World Cuppers? Or like Nail?

 
  • 64% (18)
    WC
  • 35% (10)
    Nail
28 Total Votes  
post #121 of 141
Well, something nail needs to come to terms with is the fact that he has done tremendous disservice to SVMM and all the people behind it. Welcome to the internet.

Anyone who preaches that there is only one technical approach to moguls probably hasn't skied enough moguls to realize that a combination of techniques are needed. Anyone this blind shouldn't be going around trying to educate the masses on mogul skiing. No reason why SVMM cant be another tool in the pocket of an expert mogul skier, but then again, I wouldn't miss SVMM if it disappeared tomorrow.
post #122 of 141
yes kgbudz, of course.  But you're assuming the guys at SVMM are the first ones to come up with the tricks they call SVMM.  All they have really done is taken a subset of mogul skiing tactics and techniques, hyper analyzed them into some kind of limited scope methodology with names, slogans and bundled it together into something marketable.  

There is nothing really wrong with that until the participants become religous and dogmatic about their limited approach. 
post #123 of 141

Yup.

Here's a question. I wonder if Dale Beg-Smith thinks his mogul skiing is defensive?

And what about Chuck Martin and Nelson Carmichael? Are they teaching defensive mogul tactics? Or are they teaching the correct way to be successful at skiing moguls?

Or is the PSIA way of skiing moguls the proper way to teach mogul skills for young skiers or adults who want to become competitive bump skiers?

Whether there is or is not a World Cup mogul technique, as bump skiers you have to ask yourself the question. Do you want to ski like World Cuppers? Or do you want to ski moguls using Nailbender's teechnique? Or as most ski instructors would have you ski them?

You know, most people's opinions are based on personal experience and/or their belief in a technique or series of movements that they have used and have had success with over the period of their ski life. I'm sure my skiing has flaws. Show me a skier who has no flaws in their skiing? I don't think of my mogul tactics of preferring the zipperline and skiing it when all possible as defeensive skiing. But, opting out of the falline when the line changes or the bumps become too irregular or gnarly to continue as is finds me going on the defensive and skiing over the tops and the sides till another line appears or conditions allow me to zipper it again.

To me, the zipperline is on the offense and everything else is defensive. It's still good skiing and it might be the more technical line but it's not what I envision of good mogul skiing. And by the numbers on the survey, most others think the same way.

post #124 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nailbender View Post



I also get the satisfaction of successfully skiing lines that very few others have skied. 
 

LOL...I missed this gem.  He's not talking about some gnarly descent in the Chugach or even a secret backcountry pow stash...he's talking about what part of the mogul his skis touch.
post #125 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abox View Post




LOL...I missed this gem.  He's not talking about some gnarly descent in the Chugach or even a secret backcountry pow stash...he's talking about what part of the mogul his skis touch.

It's a valid and worthwhile endeavor. Why not seek the line less traveled? If nothing else the snow is better
post #126 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lars View Post


To me, the zipperline is on the offense and everything else is defensive. It's still good skiing .....but it's not what I envision of good mogul skiing. And by the numbers on the survey, most others think the same way.



 
post #127 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by GarryZ View Post




It's a valid and worthwhile endeavor. Why not seek the line less traveled? If nothing else the snow is better
 


Of course but it takes a fairly grandiose notion of one's talents to use a phrase generally reserved for extreme descents to describe something as banal as skiing out of the tracks on a bump run.
post #128 of 141
All the talk about how the zipper line is best is fine but why would having only one spot to turn in a mogul field be better than having three spots Zipper line, banking off the sides and skiing over the tops be less of an advantage then only knowing the zipper line? 

Also have the zipper liners ever felt the ski do the work rather than the mogul make your turns for you? 

Yes you say you do it all but always ski the zipper line on low angle runs where speed control does not matter.

No one ever addresses the fact that skiing is more than only skiing moguls in the zipper. Try skiing more than defensive zipper lining and be less defensive about who is best or what is best.
post #129 of 141
Skiers unless your going to compete on the WC which is not judging how the skiers turn but how they look or how many mistakes they make skiers goals should be how to improve there overall skiing skills. 

WC judges should start to look at what the skis are doing not some mythical body position with the skis doing nothing or very little.

Go back lars and watch the beloved DBS"s skis to see if they ever get into reverse camber or are they always flat and never flexed? 

As lars asks what look of skier would you prefer to me a combination of all the above would be best PSIA, WC and nails is what the real message is.

Please try to answer the ?
Edited by cvj - 4/5/10 at 8:13am
post #130 of 141
About the survey said many times that most skiers only know the zipper line. Thats why the survey is flawed.

Survey should be ask the average skier what they think about zipper lining when you ride the chair. Not just the zipper line population.
post #131 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by kgbudz View Post

Well, something nail needs to come to terms with is the fact that he has done tremendous disservice to SVMM and all the people behind it. Welcome to the internet.

Anyone who preaches that there is only one technical approach to moguls probably hasn't skied enough moguls to realize that a combination of techniques are needed. Anyone this blind shouldn't be going around trying to educate the masses on mogul skiing. No reason why SVMM cant be another tool in the pocket of an expert mogul skier, but then again, I wouldn't miss SVMM if it disappeared tomorrow.
Sensor ship is the answer LOL. Nothing new this use to be America.

However it was never meant for competing on the WC or for the exclusive zipper liners. It is for skiers in general to improve there skills of skiing in general. dah
post #132 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvj View Post

...Go back lars and watch the beloved DBS"s skis to see if they ever get into reverse camber or are they always flat and never flexed? ...

Some of this stuff is just so out-there...DBS's skis get bent into reverse camber virtually every turn.  You seldom see the bases of his skis. 

Or, to look at it differently, if he somehow accidentally spent the last couple seasons on skis he can't bend, and the flex in his skis apparent when he is skiing is simply  an optical illusion on a grand scale, repeating mysteriously across multiple years and multiple venues,...well, imagine how good he can be if he gets on some skis that really will bend for him!  Cuz I think he's done ok.
post #133 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvj View Post



Sensor ship is the answer LOL. Nothing new this use to be America.


 

haha... don't think censorship is needed. IMO, the more you banter and drone this forum with the same message, the more you will discredit SVMM and SVSEF.
post #134 of 141
Quote:
CTKook wrote:

Some of this stuff is just so out-there...DBS's skis get bent into reverse camber virtually every turn.  You seldom see the bases of his skis. 

The video clearly shows his tips seldom leave the fall line with his tails pivoting back and forth in the air like a windshield wiper behind him,  At almost every turn I can see the bases of the tips/shovels of DBS's skis that are sticking out about 5" from the end of the mogul when he slams sideways into the base of the sidewall to control speed and initiate direction change which happens with the tips/shovels in the air,  It is telling when you see the tips of the skis sticking out beyond the base of the mogul sidewall at the finish of the turn, the skier is finishing a pivot turn by bouncing into the mogul wall.  How does a skier get 2/3rds the way through a "turn" before they make tip contact with the snow while the rest of the ski is still in the air? 

DBSPivotTurn.jpg
post #135 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvj View Post



Sensor ship is the answer LOL. Nothing new this use to be America.

 

USS-Arleigh-Burke-DDG-51-0006.jpg
post #136 of 141
I see his right ski flexing and the tip of his left starting to engage the next mogul in the picture you have put up in your last post.

At the speed he is skiing, it would be virtually impossible to carve the entire way,or to have your skis in contact with the snow through a line of moguls. That said, with speed involved as part of judging mogul contests, skiing the fast line slow isn't the way to win is it?

Skiing moguls as you suggest Nail, is exactly doing that. Sking the fast line slow. While I do this in certain conditions, and not just the bumps but other areas of ski resort, it's not the way to win WC mogul competitions, or when conditions and terrain provide a good line that is condusive to hammering the zipperline.

I've come to the conclusion that you don't have the tools to properly ski the zipperline so you've looked for and concentrated on alternative methods that suits your skiing technique. Which in all reality is fine with me. It really is. But, it's not for those who have become good mogul skiers who can handle the speed and finess of zipperline skiing.

And trying to put everyone who does, including world class skiers, into a class of second rate skiers isn't going to win you many supporters or to buy into the SVMM.
post #137 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nailbender View Post



The video clearly shows his tips seldom leave the fall line...

Kinda telling to grab a still to try to make a point about a video.  There are lots of videos of the guy skiing, people can look at them and draw their own conclusions about whether his skis bend or not.  Your buddy made a wacky statement that clearly implies he thinks that DBS skis are always flat and not flexed, and not bent into reverse camber.  I think his skis decamber virtually every turn.  Purty simple.
post #138 of 141
Yes, even in the single still he grabbed this is true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lars View Post

I see his right ski flexing and the tip of his left starting to engage the next mogul in the picture you have put up in your last post.

At the speed he is skiing, it would be virtually impossible to carve the entire way,or to have your skis in contact with the snow through a line of moguls....
post #139 of 141
Nail, not only is he letting the ski tails swisch back and forth behind him while his tips stay in the fall line (pivot point somewhere halvway between tips and toe binding) but he is also bending his entire body from side to side (angulation?) to resist the impact. And his pole work is mechanically integrated. I would like to see the upper body more stabel with more movements in the legs. Its also not true that at those speeds the skis cannot turn more evenly and rounder like Shawn is doing. I very much disslike modern bump skiing and I have totally lost interest in the sport. I did not even watch one run at the olympics. I did watch a lot of curling though .
post #140 of 141

There is noting defenssive about zipper line skiing.

post #141 of 141
Why do skiers pick the zipper line? When there are other places to make turns. Why pick 1 spot to turn? Because it is the easiest place to make turns when skiing moguls.

In another thread there was video of Canadian Demo team member that was skiing groomed very good. This is how skiers should ski all over the Mt. using this fundamental technique to turn short radius medium radius or long radius turns. This all that SVMM camp is trying to say. Use the same basics to ski all the Mt. Moguls, groomed, racing, or even off piste.

All the post about a discrediting or bantering about skiing you all have the wrong idea. It is no different about zipper lining IMO.
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