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Dealing with a colleague who teaches badly - Page 2

post #31 of 38
Thanks for the info.

Just a side question, have you noticed any differences between SIA (Professional Ski Instructors Association of Japan) and SAJ (Ski Assocation of Japan) instructors?

Thanks,
post #32 of 38
Thread Starter 
We only have one Japanese instructor, so no.
post #33 of 38
Maybe the guy looked like a ski jumper when the other Instructor had him? So he said no you must be back further ...try to feel the back of the boot more? It's a hard call to say that because the lesson said someone had told him to be more back that the reasoning wasn't there at the time of the previous lesson?
I would never come right out and say " that guy didn't have a clue" remember someone will have this same lesson later and you wouldn't want that said about you right or wrong. ( I use to teach not that long ago and I still follow up behind others I work with now and would never torpedo a fellow employee or the company that I work for)
I'm am kindda shocked that your ski school doesn't do sessioning of the instructors to check abilities and keep a common  teaching method ( shame on you're ski school for neglecting its employees and not trying to check on and improve the abilities of it's employees)
post #34 of 38
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Boot View Post

Maybe the guy looked like a ski jumper when the other Instructor had him? So he said no you must be back further ...try to feel the back of the boot more? It's a hard call to say that because the lesson said someone had told him to be more back that the reasoning wasn't there at the time of the previous lesson?
I would never come right out and say " that guy didn't have a clue" remember someone will have this same lesson later and you wouldn't want that said about you right or wrong. ( I use to teach not that long ago and I still follow up behind others I work with now and would never torpedo a fellow employee or the company that I work for)
I'm am kindda shocked that your ski school doesn't do sessioning of the instructors to check abilities and keep a common  teaching method ( shame on you're ski school for neglecting its employees and not trying to check on and improve the abilities of it's employees)
The ski jumping situation is possible, just highly unlikely, especially considering that the ski instructor in question skis massively in the back seat and has some very strange ideas about vertical movement. I definitely regret saying he was wrong in the way I did, but I still feel that it had to be made clear to them that he was wrong, I just should have said it more tactfully.

I do miss the training I used to get working in CO, but the snow is so good here and the pay so much better that I still think I will be back next year, even if the H2B situation gets worked out.
post #35 of 38
I really think you should have asked your colleague directly what he was teaching when he asked them to feel the pressure on the back of their boots.  If you asked with open curiosity and just said, I think maybe they misunderstood something you were teaching them yesterday, by the way they explained to me and I was curious what they were supposed to get from it.

You may find it was something misunderstood from a drill that was meant to help with some specific movement they were trying to achieve the day before (hop turns or something like that), not their general skiing.  Anyhow, approaching the colleague directly does two things, it may teach him something about how his students interpret the lessons and allow you a little more respect for your colleague, or it could give a peer coaching opportunity if what he explains seems incorrect to you.  You can then tactfully say hmm, just how does that work, I have never seen that way explained and don't understand how it would assist with ......(getting someone to think about what they said, how they said and the goal they were trying to achieve may help them realize the outcome isn't going to be what they thought).

As it sits, it was a learning experience for you, but I'm not sure your colleague gets anything from it.  Tomorrow is another day.
post #36 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post

set- up

late 20s women skiing all of her adult life turns using her upper body. along with various other stuff going on. takes casual lessons every time she skis one time a year. I ask her how she turns her skis.after watching her ski and knowing that she is muscle her upper body to turn.

her reply 

"I have had several ski teachers(luckly none at stowe) tell me to turn my arms where I want to go and point my shoulders where I am going so I turn me whole body"

hey at least she knew what she was doing....

my reply 

"I hope this does not lose my creditabity but that is simply not a good way of turning for reason you dont need to know but would just complicate things further, those instructors I am sorry to say were wrong and there is no way to sugar coat that. If you ever get an instructor who tells you to turn other than using your legs stop the lesson and go talk to the SSD or supervisor. Hopefully they at least know enough that youll either get someone else or a refund."

in my case her former teachers were not my current coworkers, if they were I am truthfully not sure how I would have handle it. At least not she knows one things for the rest of her life and I am hoping what we did helped some to get rid of her 10 year old upper body twisting.

LOL this is funny ,
I,m pretty sure that the lady was probably told to keep her shoulders square to the hill and look at where she is going down the hill . As opposed to turning the body with each turn. Everyone hears something different when instruction is given or interprets it "as they hear it"
LS and I have been known to argue about translation of instruction given and at the end go ohhh I see what you are saying I didn't think of it that way.
Her skiing is done in the "now" as to say what I am doing at this moment is all the exists and all that matters. As we progress our skills se start to think of the "future " as our train of though is refocused. Kindda like a chess game.
One of the places we taught at a few years ago had the CSIA president as the ski school director, He suggested one day we all go out and try a form of "on the snow sport" that was forgein to us so we could remember what it was like to learn somthing new and what is involved in the learning process from the lesson side of view. I went and took my first snowboard lesson that week. I figgures I was at an advantage as detection and correction is the name of the Instruction game. I watched good boardes befor hand , mentally broke down the movements, watch them ballance and I had the advantage of being comfortable with downhill speed.
I gotta tell you I had it all figured out, but when it came to brass tacks I did the funky chicken just like the rest of them.
Anyway remeber what the lesson tells you they where told and what the reality or focus of the previous lessons where , might be 2 different things
BTW BWPA the LOL wasnt about what you said but i find it funny we all hear things differently and when you think about it , the translation was probibly in question and not the instruction
post #37 of 38
I've ran across that turn the body and the feet will follow idea and to be honest it has a long history of use. It was considered good technique back in the days of long thongs and the simplex toe. It's still used on occasion as a pre-turn wind up / anticipation move. In fact if you watched the Olympics you couldn't help but notice more than a few disciplines where that move is not an error. Everything from dropping a shoulder before entering the new turn in slalom, to park and pipe skiers creating a 720, etc...
The bottom line here is show your clients alternatives and detail the FAB's of that option instead of packaging your advice as correct and someone elses as wrong.
BWPA's client was a perfect opportunity to show how a shoulder twist is a bit like a long distant call (command to turn the skis) and turning the legs is more like a local call. Have the students try to do very quick short  (one a second) turns and the advantage of leg steering become obvious. It's easier to use leg steering in this activity, not to mention it's more accurate since we're not trying to create and arrest so much angular momentum during the activity. Presenting things in this way empowers the students in the learning and experimentation process. Guiding them towards conclusions instead of telling them your conclusions are gospel.  
post #38 of 38
I like the long distance/local call analogy, JASP.

My first lesson (circa 1947) involved a total body rotation to twist skis -- longer than I could reach, even on tiptoes, with beartrap bindings featuring a heel spring that would let your heel slid an inch sideways in either direction--toward downhill to start a turn.  The description, from a Central European escapee of Hitler's, was "crouch down, swing up and around".  The initial movement was from a wedged position.  As one progressed, it was more parallel.
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