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SCSA's A note for my on-line pals , Part II - Page 2

post #31 of 38

You've now become a full fledged epic addict.

SnoKarver said it best the day we met.

"Isn't it funny how nerds always seem to find each other".<FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by SCSA (edited July 07, 2001).]</FONT>
post #32 of 38

Thanks for the reply, but I think I didn't ask my question very well. I do understand the progression as it is in the book, and your additional input sounds right on. Yeah, 4 to maybe 6 steps to turn 90 degrees is about right with thousand steps also. Trying to do it with too large steps is a disaster.

Let me try the question again;

With all of the emphasis on little toe edge, including stepping onto it in exercises such as these, how do you keep students from initiating with the shoulders, and banking into the turns with too much pressure on the inside foot?

I know that in the mid to upper levels, he teaches lifting and lightening, but in the early stages, especially with the Phan. Drag, I see it as something that needs to be addressed.

I have had a good number of students (the more athletic ones) spontaneously go right into this skidded "phantom drag", but the problem it creates it too much pressure on the inside ski, with not enough edge angle and pressure on the outside ski to keep them from doing a straight side slip and some nasty upper body rotation (a lot of times, they will also spin 180). Coming from my background, to correct this, I have them forget about the inside ski, and pressure/edge the outside ski to create a nice, fairly carved turn. But PMTS emphasises the inside ski so much that it seems like having too much pressure on the inside and not enough edge angle on the outside would be a chronic problem. I'm curious as to how it's addressed.
post #33 of 38
Thread Starter 

I have some students that have done some very weird things with their upper bodies. When this happens, I back up a couple of steps and re-emphesize previous movements that they have mastered. Take stepping with skis on; The student is flailing around taking big steps and crossing the skis. I will back them up to sidestepping up the hill and down, stressing small steps. I coach them first to put pressure on the big-toe edge of the downhill ski to give them a platform in which to step. This usually is enough, but if I think going back further will help, then I will go to the boots only.

P. Drag. From a shallow traverse, flatten the weighted downhill ski until the tips start to slide downhill. Half a ski length is sufficient. Lighten the uphill ski and drag the ski until the heels touch, keeping the ski light. The CM moves into the turn because of the lightened ski AND the heels touching. The CM will cause the downhill ski to tip onto it's big-toe edge and engage the ski. Try standing with one foot slightly off the floor. You should feel the peroneal group of muscles working in your stance leg to keep you upright. Relax them and you tip to the lightened side. Now raise your arch and see how much more effective that is.

This is what PMTS is about; controlling the CM and utilizing the design of the ski to

I hope that I have answered your questions. Remember that if a student is having difficulty performing a movement, back up to where the student was successful.

BTW, the hike was 4 miles in on a rocky trail. A 45 pound pack will really help to develop balance muscles. Besides the fishing was great! But, we are both beat.

post #34 of 38
Thanks Rick. Yeah, you covered it. Glad you had a good time entertaining the fish.
post #35 of 38
Beautiful, Rick! I have not been keeping up with you folks! Jeez.

Beat me to that raising of the arch. If you have not tried the Phantom Drag yourself, you need to. It is a very clear movement that really gives a feeling of control. I think it's wonderful that John H is reading the book. Attending a PMTS event is even better.

Peter Keelty sometimes reminds me of a contestant on the "most grizzled man game show" sketch from Saturday Nigh Live

Pierre & Roto, youse guys is classy!
The "too cool for ski school" thing is a real problem. I really get PO'd at that crap. I personally know a bunch of instructors that are cert ones and twos that are MUCH better instructors than the WONK, or the ego skier. I personally prefer NOT to train with certain people, because of this behavior. And yeah, some of them are PSIA Examiners and Trainers. Something I do, as a habit, is try to ski with the FNG's. Especially the younger ones. Promote clinics. Just for fun. We do get a chance to meet in the almost-every-morning clinics we have.

Bob, the 3 steps to success ROCKS. Does need development, to simplify. I had high hopes for the PSIA training this year, when I heard about it. But it got less clear, over the course of the season... And compared to our internal training program in the past, well... it just WASN'T. Very frustrating. One of many reasons I "chose" PMTS training this year.

Once again, singing the praises of the defunct UofB. My favorite YODA does not even teach there anymore. Others have left as well. At least I still have my letter jacket. This should NOT happen, losing top talent like that!

Hey, SCSA, if you recommended books to Harald, would you read that book I suggested you read? BTW, it is one of Harald's FAVORITE books! Maybe I'll get him to ask you...

Hey what's down this run? SnoKarver
post #36 of 38
Okay, I was enjoying the reading, then I started to get annoyed. Not because of the "TTS" bashing, or even the contradictory remarks such as saying that it's a bad thing that TTSs ask you to do the long leg, short leg thing, and then go and advocate it's usefullness in His system. But when I saw him start to talk about pole use, I almost hit the floor. He is advocating a forceful dragging of the UPHILL pole!! Umm. Hello? Where do you come up with this shi!#?

Okay, fine. I laughed, I got over it. Then, he goes back into lifting the downhill foot, and tells us that it is good to hang out on the uphill edge of the uphill foot for a while. Now, I understand he's basically teaching "patience turns", which I, personally hate, but to tell you to stand static in a traverse on the uphill foot means that you MUST move your CM UP (yes, I said UP) the hill. To defend this, he says that TTSs ask you to move your CM into the hill and edge too quickly! Huh? He want's us to regress 10-15 years and NOT get on an early edge? He seems to think that getting on an early edge is what is putting the skis on opposing edges (wedge). No siree, bob. Not getting the CM across the downhill ski is what puts them on opposing edges.

And his photo sequences. You gotta be kidding me?! He keeps re-using this one sequesnce of a girl (is that Diana?) doing some intense shoulder initiation, while her CM compensates for the shoulder initiation by moving back up the hill. In one set of comparison photos, they put that same sequence up against her doing a small wedge at the beginning of the turn. What glared out at me, was that in the first frame of the PMTS sequnce, her body was vertical, with shoulders trying to tip into the hill. In the wedge sequence, the first photo shows good early CM crossover, with her body perpendicular to the slope. To anyone who knows HOW to ski really well, it would be obvious that the sequence they were trying to bash is actually a better turn than the one he advocates.

My other, more general beef with the manual, is that yes, it is a manual for a beginner teacher. So much so, that he shows how to use a pole strap properly. I'm cool with that. Yet, he has never mentioned how to identify errors and how to correct them, other than to say, go back and do the previous step again. More recently, in the manual, he got into accentuating balance again. Certainly not a bad thing. But he wants a low level intermediate skier to be able to balance completly through a turn on one ski before they can move on. I don't know about lessons at his place, but at my mountain, I have an hour, to an hour and a half. I'd need three days to work balance that much with some of our guests. Geez, he's even asking lower intermediates to do complete inside ski turns (he has re-named them "banana turns"). Again, from my previous posts, he is, without saying the words, advocating banking and having too much pressure on the inside foot.

So, in general: Bank; ski on the inside foot; drag the inside pole; and move your CM against the hill at the beginning of every turn; then wait patiently for your CM to get across the one foot you are balanced on, before you begin edging.

As I read along, I get a smile on my face, saying "good... good" to myself, then every few minutes I go wide eyed, saying "What?! Is he NUTS?!"

You know, I thought I was going to like his progressions. As it turns out, I am just getting into the Blue/Black section, and I find only a couple of exercises to be valid. I don't know whether to be happy because this is validating my concerns with his system, or pissed because I know he's a better teacher than this, and is completely selling out just to try to make a buck. As a professional ski teacher, I think I'm more pissed. I really wanted this to be a good system so that I could stop getting in arguments over it.

I think I'll go eat lunch and read some more.
post #37 of 38
Slow day JohnH?
Thanks for the feedback.
post #38 of 38
Yes, it is. I've had more of them recently than I would like. but that's what happens when a project winds down.
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EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › Ski Training and Pro Forums › Ski Instruction & Coaching › SCSA's A note for my on-line pals , Part II