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Stacking (no speed limit discussion)

post #1 of 13
Thread Starter 
Stacked01.jpg

Inspired by the olympis DH probably many here wondering about high speed skiing and carving and I thaught that it would be nice to get some input here on the topic. To start the discussion I post a frame capture of Axel from the DH yesterday. Have a go folks. Why inclining? Why the wide stance? Why square? Why inside shoulder dropping? Is the answere to these and many more questions efficient STACKING?
post #2 of 13
There is that, but there is more.
Ski is tipped to required angle to arc the turn.
Angulation is as required to 1) keep from rotating over outside ski edge, 2) direct net force vector at point between skis (pretty close to outside ski) so as to get desired weight force distribution between skis.
Think of him as a barn door with hinges at the outside ski and wind going to skiers left.  High speed = lots of wind pushing him left.  If he were to angulate as in a low speed turn, he would get pushed over. 

The wider stance is a little slower edge to edge, but more stable and easier to handle bumps and make recoveries, ie. safer.
post #3 of 13

That's easy TDK6 :D

Just try it!

First time I went fast in a DH course I angulated at speed and quite immediately i was balancing on the outer ski with the other ski high up in the air. It wasn't a pleasant surprise and I barely made it from falling. And I wasn't riding *that fast* either.
It's all about balancing the centripetal forces.

post #4 of 13
well you cant really discuss his position with out discussing speed and his purpose. So your thread title isnt valid at all.

 hes stacked at that speed the thing is the average rec skier doesnt ski at 50-70mph while turning so there is really no need for the average skier to understand why he is inclined and square to his skis.

Go ski some speed (SG or DH) skis or 190+ fat skis at speed at I promise youll ski pretty close to what this guy is doing right here or this will be one of your last post on here.
post #5 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post

well you cant really discuss his position with out discussing speed and his purpose. So your thread title isnt valid at all.
Title seems pretty valid to me.  "no-speed-limit" implies high speeds.
post #6 of 13
Thread Starter 

Bump

 

Here is a discussion about stacking that never took off.... Ghost thanks for taking the time and reading the Title

post #7 of 13


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdk6 View Post

Why inclining?

More speed means more forces to balance against... therefore more inclination

 

Quote:
Why the wide stance?

A wider stance is more stable... narrow stance is more agile... in this case wide is more appropriate.

 

     Quote:

Why square?

He's not totally square here. His hips are facing the direction of momentum. In a longer turn (like in DH) less steering angle is required... therefore he will be much more "square" than in a shorter turn.

 

Quote:
Why inside shoulder dropping?

Less angulation is required to achieve the desired edge angle because there is enough force to get it with inclination alone. (although not completely as there is a tiny amount of angulation here.

 

Quote:
Is the answere to these and many more questions efficient STACKING?

 

 Looks pretty well balanced (although hard to know for certain without a moving picture showing the whole turn) and is efficient, using the big muscles if that is what you mean by "stacking."

 

post #8 of 13
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by skinerd View Post


 

More speed means more forces to balance against... therefore more inclination

 

A wider stance is more stable... narrow stance is more agile... in this case wide is more appropriate.

 

     Quote:

He's not totally square here. His hips are facing the direction of momentum. In a longer turn (like in DH) less steering angle is required... therefore he will be much more "square" than in a shorter turn.

 

Less angulation is required to achieve the desired edge angle because there is enough force to get it with inclination alone. (although not completely as there is a tiny amount of angulation here.

 

 

 Looks pretty well balanced (although hard to know for certain without a moving picture showing the whole turn) and is efficient, using the big muscles if that is what you mean by "stacking."

 


 

Side note: Correct me someone if Im wrong but stacking refers to stacking the bones so that they carry a bigger load under less stress.
 

post #9 of 13


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdk6 View Post


 

Side note: Correct me someone if Im wrong but stacking refers to stacking the bones so that they carry a bigger load under less stress.
 

 

NP.  smile.gif

Stacking is maintaining proper skeleton alignment through out the turn so forces are transfer thru the bone and not thru muscle.

 

The benefits are two fold, stacking provides 1) efficiency and 2) opportunity.   Bones are more efficient at transferring loads and if muscles are not utilized as the primary means to deal with the forces generated in a turn,  the technician now has the opportunity to be recruit the muscle to ((generally speaking)) do other things.


Edited by johnpenxa - 9/28/10 at 5:46pm
post #10 of 13
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnpenxa View Post

 

NP.  smile.gif

Stacking is maintaining proper skeleton alignment through out the turn so forces are transfer thru the bone and not thru muscle.

 

The benefits are two fold, stacking provides 1) efficiency and 2) opportunity.   Bones are more efficient at transferring loads and if muscles are not utilized as the primary means to deal with the forces generated in a turn,  the technician now has the opportunity to be recruit the muscle to ((generally speaking)) do other things.


Some confusion here.... yes, what you just said is exaclty what I mean by stacking. My previous posting did not quite come out as I wanted. I was objecting to the suggestion that stacking was big muscles used for carrying the load insted of proper skeleton alignment. My bad.
 

post #11 of 13

>>Some confusion here.... yes, what you just said is exaclty what I mean by stacking

 

Well then,  let me politely request you work your ability to write what you mean in the future to eschew obfuscation. 

post #12 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnpenxa View Post

>>Some confusion here.... yes, what you just said is exaclty what I mean by stacking

 

Well then,  let me politely request you work your ability to write what you mean in the future to eschew obfuscation. 


 

Hey now, he does pretty good for a Finnish fellow with English as a second language...

 

.ma

post #13 of 13
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnpenxa View Post

>>Some confusion here.... yes, what you just said is exaclty what I mean by stacking

 

Well then,  let me politely request you work your ability to write what you mean in the future to eschew obfuscation. 


Ok, lets take a look at what I said.....

 

Side note: Correct me someone if Im wrong but stacking refers to stacking the bones so that they carry a bigger load under less stress.

 

First off all I did say that if I was wrong I hoped some one would correct me and I did that already onece but let me thank you one more time, thank you. On a second note Im not sure Im all that wrong in my above clumbsy explanation. I was saying that by stacking our bones properly bigger loads could be resisted causing less strain. The correct way of stacking our bones is so that less muscle effort is needed. I see nothing completely wrong with it. But as I said earlier, your posting was very good. Keep up your good work .

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