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Why a quiet upper body? - Page 2

post #31 of 45
Thread Starter 
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Your feet and legs move much more quickly when the upper body is separated from the lower body.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is an interesting, one might say surgical, sentence.
post #32 of 45
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by nolobolono:
Why the focus on abs, strong inside, strong core movements? Is it that in order for the lower body to be more active, the upper body has to act as a stabilizer?

Sorta, but I think of it mor like:

In order for the lower body to be active we have to be in balance. Movements that originate in the upper body tend to have a greater chance of getting us out of balance, in which case our lower body must stiffen to keep us from actually losing balance. This scenario can take place in a relatively 'balanced looking' skier, but the ease with which the skis flow and can be guided is hampered.
post #33 of 45
To All,

The problem I have with tightening anything in the abe area is that you end up holding your breath on the most part. Not a good thing, IMHO.------Wigs :
post #34 of 45
Thread Starter 
Are there any Feldenkrais experts on site? I believe the reasoning behind the "strong center" comes from martial arts and Feldenkrais. In some sense it appears to be a psychological thing. Perhaps it is like weight transfer: something that happens as a result of turn dynamics, that is better to "let happen" than to "make happen."

I do believe that in my own skiing that the strong inside is associated with refined guidance of both skis.
post #35 of 45

I really like Arc's comment on trying to cause what we should allow to happen.

I have to wonder if that's not the problem here, as you refer to tightening the left abs on a left turn.

I wonder if, because we all learned to counter when making short, powerful turns, that that move is not so engrained in your muscle memory that for you to allow your upper body to move with the direction of the skis in a short turn, you feel you have to cause it to happen by tightening the inside abs, as opposed to letting it happen.

This also makes me sort of leary of teaching it to students who might not have it quite so committed to muscle memory. You may end up creating some over-rotation unless the students are countering too much.

Just a thought.....
post #36 of 45
Feldenkrais has this concept of the "Pelvic Clock". Its a bit complex, but if you were lying down, and your spine was imprinted into the floor, your pelvis would be at 12:00. keep in mind, its not a pelvic tilt, just a flat spine. Whhen the spine is neutral {small curve at the base} you are at 6:00. Your left hip is 3:00, ypur right is 9:00. If you were to lie on your back, and go "around the clock" without lifting your pelvis, you would be activsting the deep layer of abdominals that I spoke about in the thread in fitness "These are Your Abs when Skiing".
So the feeling of "Moving your belly button to the right" to make a right turn, will also engage these muscles. The word "tension" is probably what confuses people. The deep abs extend and stabilize. Probably a better word is "engage".
post #37 of 45
Nolo: Here's a simple and very direct way to see why a Quiet Upper Body is so important to ski precisely. Try this exercise the next time you're on skis:

First leave your poles aside. Go to a groomed mild blue run with a single straight fall line. Then place your arms across your chest in an "X" fashion. Now ski shorter medium radius turns in this stance. As you get more comfortable then tighten the turn radius until you're skiing consistent short radius turns, say 25-30 without stopping.

Now do the exact same exercise with turn shape, however place your arms outstretched and begin to erradically wave them. See if you can ski the same shaped turn radius over the same 25-30 turns. Now look at the ski track. What does it show?????? Is it clean and precise or wavy and erradically skidded????? I suspect that it is the latter. I also suspect that it was very difficult to ski precisely while waving your arms erradically. Let me know. Have fun with this exercise. Good Luck.

post #38 of 45
Seems to me that this is getting much too COMPLICATED!

IMHO, I believe that we ski with the parts of our body that are closest to the snow (feet, ankles) and then let the rest of the body do what is necessary to maintain balance against the skis. We really don't need the upper body to be active to do this; so it is RELATIVELY QUIET. If we make the upper body "loud", we usually create something in the upper body that has do be "undone" before the next turn can start, thereby interupting flow.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ January 30, 2002 03:41 AM: Message edited 3 times, by Blizzard ]</font>
post #39 of 45
I am too out of shape to have any core power. I just rely on technique.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ January 30, 2002 07:25 AM: Message edited 1 time, by slider ]</font>
post #40 of 45
[quote]Originally posted by slider:
[QB]I am too out of shape to have any core power. I just rely on technique.

Yes, but that's sort of like what Kneale said about its not how much strength, but how you use it! Part of the reason some people tend to use too much upper body rotation is because of an incorrect carry over from other sports or activities. I was never much of a ballerina, which requires a relatively quiet torso. I was much more talented at modern or jazz, which uses a good deal of torso rotation. I also have really strong obliques. If I'm not thonking about keeping a quiet upper body, I may end up using so much uppper body rotation that end up going way across the hill.

I just came from a functional trainig workshop. Most of the guys in that field specialize in soccer, golf, track and field, and tennis. As a result, there is a good deal of torso rotational training. We were doing an exercise where your partner had a resistance tube around their waist. You held on to the tube handles, and performed rotational moves that started in the torso, then followed through to the hips.

I ended up practically knocking over my training partner! [img]redface.gif[/img] The instructor commented on how strong I was, but I realized this kind of strength does not work for skiing.

Currently, I am teaching 2 cellists who play for the Boston Pops. {I'm trying to coerce them to bring Keith to class!}
There sport of choice, is golf. But since playing the cello requires a quiet upper body, they have trouble with the rotational movements required for golf.

I told them that they would make excellent skiers!
post #41 of 45
Lisamarie. Your job sounds very interesting. Being able to meet people with such a wide varity of skills. To be intuned with ones body is living life to the fullest. I should repharse my earlier post. I'm not 25 anymore but I still ski that way. Just not as long.
post #42 of 45
"To be intuned with ones body is living life to one's fullest".

I'll say! And yes, my work is very interesting as is yours! Awhile ago i commented on a photo of you teaching an adaptive ski lessson. Your postural alignment showed a significant amount of core STABILITY, which for skiing, is more important than strength.

Being intunes with one's body also allows you to age gracefully. And having core stability allows the postural alignment to look like that of a 25 year old's.

Today, a girl from one of my group classes was taking a private lesson from a young trainer, who is one of my proteges. The trainer looks at the girl and says to me "this was me at age 20"
I smile, and point to the trainer, and say "this was me at 26!"

The girl looks up, thinks for a moment, and says, "looks like I have a pretty good future!" [img]smile.gif[/img]
post #43 of 45
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lisamarie:
"To be intuned with ones body is living life to one's fullest".<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'd agree, but I'd also add: "to be in tune with your guitar helps"

post #44 of 45
And a Sabine tuner helps even more! It's drunk-proof!
post #45 of 45
My dad built my guitar along with a number of others.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ February 02, 2002 10:32 AM: Message edited 1 time, by slider ]</font>
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