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Grrraahh!!!

post #1 of 27
Thread Starter 
Warning: vent thread.

I was at Killington this past weekend, and saturday throughout the day was pretty great. Decent conditions for groomers, and barely any crowds except at the gondolas. Cue 3PM and I take a wrong turn and somehow end up at snowshed (the bunny hill) and have to go down the stupid little thing to get to a quad that can get me somewhere. As im just coasting down a stupid out of control snowboarder just cuts straight across the hill and takes me completely out. My ski digs into the mountain and spins my left leg and I hear CRACK. Couldn't move my leg for a good 5 minutes, thankfully the stupid snowboarder had the sense to stop, apologize, and call for help. I get tobogganed down the hill. Long story short, the next day they take some x-rays at the orthopedic clinic they have at Ramshead and the doc diagnoses a torn MCL and ACL. Now I have a good 5 weeks of recovery time for the MCL before I can have my surgery for the ACL. What was supposed to be a 5-day skiing spring vacation in March is turning into a 9-day stay at home for the first bit of post-surgery rehab. Now I am in a brace and limping around everywhere. Everything takes 5x longer than it should.


Why the hell are people unable to look uphill before they turn? It is the most freaking obvious and instinctual thing you should ever do!


Grrr!!!!

Vent thread over. That felt good
post #2 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by AKiss20 View Post

Warning: vent thread.

Why the hell are people unable to look uphill before they turn? It is the most freaking obvious and instinctual thing you should ever do!


Grrr!!!!

Vent thread over. That felt good
 
People ahead of you have the right of way. It is your responsibility to avoid them.
post #3 of 27
Sorry about your injury and I hope you heal well.

But like Ghost said, even more freaking obvious and instinctual is for you to be in control so that you don't hit somebody below you.

Not what you wanted to hear, I know.
post #4 of 27
Thread Starter 
I was completely in control, she came straight across the hill from my side and side-swiped me. How exactly am I supposed to see 180 degrees all around me at every moment?
post #5 of 27
I feel sorry that you got injured, but the fact remains that you were on the bunny hill.  Everybody on the bunny hill is out of control, and at some level, the experienced skier (i.e., you) needs to realize this and ski appropriately.  Whenever I ski on a green, I'm expecting somebody to do something completely unexpected.

Hope your injuries heal completely.
post #6 of 27
I sympathise with your injury, and hope you heal up well, but if they would have had to look uphill to see you, you should have seen them and avoided them.

I have good peripheral vision, but with goggles it is a little bit limited, so I've developed this amazing  technique.  I rotate my head and watch what is going on around me.   Try it next time, just be careful not to fall if you get carried away and rotate the entire body, as this can affect the skis.
post #7 of 27
I feel your pain, well, almost. Last week I was grooving down a skied out mashed tater black.  I was coming up on a guy that was standing in the middle resting or waiting on someone.  I chose a line that was to his back side and about 15 feet away.  When I was almost on top of him he hops a 180 and pushes off right in my path.  I tapped my poles and said "WHOA!!!" He lookes uphill and sees me.  The combination of him arresting with the poles and me cutting as hard right as possible made what might have been a collision or certain near miss avoided.  I said "SORRY" as I buzzed by knowing and admitting that any collision would have been my fault even though he did something completely unexpected and pushed off without looking uphill, not recommended behavior, unsafe, but he still had the right of way

That was a heads up for me to give folks a little more room in the future
post #8 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by AKiss20 View Post

I was completely in control, she came straight across the hill from my side and side-swiped me. How exactly am I supposed to see 180 degrees all around me at every moment?
 
Like Ghost sez, turn your head if necessary. It can be done.

I used to guide visually impaired skiers at Winter Park, Colorado. I had to see for both of us and account for a much larger "personal" footprint on the hill. The skiing was mostly done on greens and blues with sometimes large numbers of skiers in marginal control. It really can be done.

Watch your back, your sides and down the hill. Too narrow a focus is not effective. Assume that almost everyone you see can, and might, do something unexpected. How fast can they change direction (probably faster than you think)? How fast can you change direction (probably not as fast as you think)? Which direction are they looking? Remember, snowboarders have blind side. Novice snowboarders often have even less directional control than novice skiers. Boarders or skiers may suddenly collapse in front of you for no apparent reason. Etc., etc.
Quote:
 
Why the hell are people unable to look uphill before they turn? 
 
I'll bet you don't look uphill over your shoulder before every turn you make. When I was guiding, I did, but it's hardly common behavior.

I'm sorry you were injured, and I hope you recover fully. When you return to the hill, you'll watch for the skiers/riders less experienced and less careful than you are, and you'll figure them out so you can give them plenty of room.
post #9 of 27
You were in a beginner area and this happened?  So I am imagining this snowboarder was probably a beginner eh?  Looking uphill, probably not the easiest thing for that person.  Any beginner for that matter.  I know on the rare days I am at a resort, if I end up riding through beginner terrain, I take extra caution going through.  Beginner skiers/riders are just plain unpredictable.  Plus as it's been said, if the rider needed to look uphill to see you, you are the person at fault.  Them's the rules.  Sucks about your knee though, hope that you have a quick recovery.
post #10 of 27

This probably sounds stupid, but I believe the safest strategy for skiing beginner hills is to go fast.  If you are skiing faster than they are then you can run into them, but they cannot run into you.  It requires you to take personal responsiblity for your safety, and everyone else on the slope, but it works.

post #11 of 27
Sucks, but I have to agree, it sounds like you are at fault.
post #12 of 27
Not to add insult to injury ... oh what the hay ... but you could have dropped over to Needle's Eye or taken Highlander over to Superstar.
RTFM Baby! (read the map)

On the plus side, you still have a few more days to get a sympathy $%#. Shouldn't take too much trolling of the bars on K'road.
post #13 of 27
Bunny hill and greens, most dangerous place on the earth........  heal up. It happened, it was an accident. BTW- could have just as easily been a skier.
post #14 of 27
Thread Starter 
@theRusty

I ended up on the far left side of the snowshed area (facing down the mountain) and thought "eh I could pole it, but I don't feel like it right now. I'll just ride it down" Ironic.

Trolling the bars of Kroad isn't in the cards for a)I am back at school b)I am under 21. Good idea though, could pull the old "You know what would really make me feel better...." card
post #15 of 27

Sorry about your knee-I've had 2 recons on my right knee and I know it sucks.

Skiing on greens can be really frustrating but they are the territory of the novice skier/rider and, to me, the skier responsibility code should have a corollary of "keep an eye out for and be prepared to yield to those unable to fully control themselves when on the beginner slope".

Skiing on the greens as an intermediate/advanced skiier can be nice as a way to "share the stoke", though, too. I hope that, when your knee is better, you'll consider giving the next generation a few pointers about technique your next trip through the greens. And, as a snowboarding tip you can pass along the next time you encounter a novice rider, the easiest way to stop during a heelside "falling leaf" is to lean further backward and during a toeside "falling leaf" is to lean  further forward-which is, by my guess, is what that rider was doing when they hit you. A "falling leaf"-that manuever will give you a horizontal traverse across the fall line.
Thanks and take care!

post #16 of 27

Interestingly enough, I'm on the side of the OP.  I know that technically the skier uphill is responsible.....HOWEVER, I had an experience recently that makes me more sympathetic. 


My brother-in-law and I are skiing mostly fall-line short turns down a diamond run; he's 20 feet to my right and slightly ahead.  He freaks at his building speed and cuts suddenly hard to his left just as I'm swinging past.  Essentially, he cuts off my fall line.  I stomp it and we only boot-bang instead of major body collision.  But when he picks himself up, he accuses me of running into him.  Huh?  He cut me off.  Even though I was 5-6 feet uphill of him, we were travelling at close to the same speed and he dived into my line. 

Technically, my fault.
AFAIC, his fault.
 

post #17 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by tch View Post

 

Technically, my fault.

 


That would be it.
post #18 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by tch View Post


Technically, my fault.
AFAIC, his fault.
 


AFAIC you won't ski with me. If you can't avoid your ski partner, back off and give him some room.
post #19 of 27
I have a lot of empathy for the OP. Heal up soon and well.

Today, I got totally wiped out by an out of control skier coming across the fall line at right angles. Did the loose both skis and slide 50 yards thing. So if his skis cross mine ahead of my bindings, does he have "downhill right of way". I sure as hell don't think so. My luck held and I've no injuries although the ski he hit has a severe gouge.

So he apologiges and mumbles something like "maybe it's my fault". Idiot! Turns out he was in a lesson and told others he was concentrating on a drill and forgot about skiing.

On the other hand, that's skiing. It's part of the risk we all take when we click-into the bindings. Perhaps NASCAR drivers have it right when they say "that's just raci'n". Skiing at the same speed as someone, but, offset by a few yards is an invitation to disaster. The learning point is to avoid skiing parallel to others. No sense in being self righteous and assessing blame after the fact.

And Lovebug, if you read this, I was thinking of our collision in Targhee. Since that day, I've made it a point of not skiing close to others. Live and learn. Heal well, you'll ski like "a girl" soon, with Rachel and well ahead of me.
post #20 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by tch View Post

Interestingly enough, I'm on the side of the OP.  I know that technically the skier uphill is responsible.....HOWEVER, I had an experience recently that makes me more sympathetic. 


My brother-in-law and I are skiing mostly fall-line short turns down a diamond run; he's 20 feet to my right and slightly ahead.  He freaks at his building speed and cuts suddenly hard to his left just as I'm swinging past.  Essentially, he cuts off my fall line.  I stomp it and we only boot-bang instead of major body collision.  But when he picks himself up, he accuses me of running into him.  Huh?  He cut me off.  Even though I was 5-6 feet uphill of him, we were travelling at close to the same speed and he dived into my line. 

Technically, my fault.
AFAIC, his fault.
 





Quote:
Originally Posted by iWill View Post




AFAIC you won't ski with me. If you can't avoid your ski partner, back off and give him some room.
 

Ok, tough audience here.  I understand on the one hand.  It's easy to be judgmental.  But how do you feel on the highway when you are in the passing lane and then someone swings out in front of you?   I'll bet $10 that you've never been cut off by another skier and then been blamed.  When things happen to you, suddenly you understand someone else's perspective.  Good luck avoiding that.

post #21 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by tch View Post


Technically, my fault.


Recently had an experience on the other side of the coin.

Coming down World Cup @ Heavenly (a straight blue run with no forks or merges) doing fast medium-radius turns on my way back to my car at the end of the day.  Deserted trail; not a soul to be seen.  Near the bottom, I turn toward the right to exit on the right side of the trail and into the parking lot.  I hear "whoa, whoa, whoa!!!" from behind me and I look uphill just in time to see a snowboarder skidding to stop to a plop on his ass directly uphill from me.  I reach bottom in about 70 feet (only turned, was still going at a medium clip) and am taking off my skis.  He starts yelling at me for being an asshole and to watch where I'm going!  He then heads off to the left toward the lifts.

So this guy, who must've dropped-in behind me and was apparently racing me without me knowing it, is calling me an asshole for making a right turn in what I estimate to be 40 feet in front of his instantaneous position.

Point of the story?  Some people will self-justify despite convention, regulation and common sense.
post #22 of 27
I understand the perspective.  I also know the rules of the game before I anti in.  I don't like being cut-off any more than the next guy, however I know that it is my responsibility to ski in such a fashion that no matter what the skier ahead of me does, I will avoid a collision. 

Usually it's easy to avoid other skiers as their speed is a small fraction of my own, so it's like they are standing still, but sometimes I have to put the brakes on.  Sometimes, like when a parent has a child on a leash and is zig-zagging the entire narrow steep run, I just have to bight the bullet and pull over for a while (wasting all that kinetic energy I've been so efficiently converting from potential energy by railing straight from the chair half way down the mountain;  parents ask yourself if your toddler wouldn't really really enjoy that green or blue run more ).   I always know whats happening around me, and am especially watchful of skiers and boarders  coming sideways out from the trees on sides of trails.  Boarders like to do jibs and jumps there.
post #23 of 27
Same rules used to apply when I rode my Honda Interceptor (now just a memory).  Sure it might be upsetting to have someone cut you off from the driving lane at 100 kph (62.5 mph) as you are blasting by at 225 kph.  Maybe you could blame him (if you were on the Autobahn and not on a speed-limited highway), but that wouldn't do you much good during the ensuing crash.  I rode my bike watching everything around me, and while maybe not expecting, certainly being prepared for every vehicle around me to make the most asinine moves possible.  That's also how you should ski.
post #24 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post

I understand the perspective.  I also know the rules of the game before I anti in.  I don't like being cut-off any more than the next guy, however I know that it is my responsibility to ski in such a fashion that no matter what the skier ahead of me does, I will avoid a collision. 

Usually it's easy to avoid other skiers as their speed is a small fraction of my own, so it's like they are standing still, but sometimes I have to put the brakes on.  Sometimes, like when a parent has a child on a leash and is zig-zagging the entire narrow steep run, I just have to bight the bullet and pull over for a while (wasting all that kinetic energy I've been so efficiently converting from potential energy by railing straight from the chair half way down the mountain;  parents ask yourself if your toddler wouldn't really really enjoy that green or blue run more ).   I always know whats happening around me, and am especially watchful of skiers and boarders  coming sideways out from the trees on sides of trails.  Boarders like to do jibs and jumps there.
 
The big problem with boarders is their blind spot.  I can't tell you how many times skiing with kids I've yelled "Blind Spot!" (nicer than, "Watch out you idiot!") to a boarder, who was skiing under control, but did not have eyes in back of his head.  Regarding another skier who cuts across your line, he does not have eyes in back of his head either.  He may have had to bail for reasons unknown.  The overtaking skier must either give him more room or slow down for the sake of safety.

Regarding kids, the best thing a parent can do is ski directly behind them unless they are on a wide open slope or bumps.  They will sometimes dart from side to side thinking they are racing a downhill (or whatever their minds are thinking of).  Parents have to protect them from people who just don't care. 
post #25 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Living Proof View Post

I have a lot of empathy for the OP. Heal up soon and well.

Today, I got totally wiped out by an out of control skier coming across the fall line at right angles. Did the loose both skis and slide 50 yards thing. So if his skis cross mine ahead of my bindings, does he have "downhill right of way". I sure as hell don't think so. My luck held and I've no injuries although the ski he hit has a severe gouge.
 

Yes, he does.

If he was traversing straight across the fall line and managed to hit your skis in front of your bindings, that means he was downhill from you the *entire* time he was traversing across the hill.  You had ample warning to see him, slow down, adjust, anything other than keep skiing and assume he'd get out of your way.
post #26 of 27
Catching up on some older threads -- sorry this one slipped through ....


Quote:
And Lovebug, if you read this, I was thinking of our collision in Targhee. Since that day, I've made it a point of not skiing close to others. Live and learn. Heal well, you'll ski like "a girl" soon, with Rachel and well ahead of me.
 

I'm doing great with my new knee brace ... not at the point where i could ever dream of keeping up with Rachel - but to be honest that was years away before our bump!! Accidents happen ... and those green bunny slopes/run outs are always the most dangerous place to be!! :)
post #27 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post



People ahead of you have the right of way. It is your responsibility to avoid them.
 
common rule everywhere, downhill skier has the right of way. you should look to the sides and downhill to avoid collisions. In high traffic areas look uphill for crazy piste bashers as well
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