Sean Warman's Concepts

The latest and greatest isn't available yet and the 2008 version is not available either. They showed the unedited 2010 dvd at pro jam. It has some interesting new features. Looking forward to its release. Very similar to the sybervision tapes.

1. Hips move forward
2. Legs change length
3. Level out

Oh boy.

Quote: pg. 6: Obviously these are cues for talking since this would need some discussion. I'm totally clueless as to how one would move feet diagonally, or even worse, why? Say that to someone and certain disaster and confusion is likely to occur. Trying to pick their feet up and walk, I can't even imagine the stuff that would happen. Far worse than "pole confusion" - as in planting the wrong pole when first learning.

We've had three threads on this. "Where do we want our feet over our hips?" is a good one.
http://www.epicski.com/forum/thread/90579/where-do-we-want-our-hips-over-our-feet-why-do-we-want-to-move-our-hips-forward

Again, far too simplistic and if you read the above thread, not desirable at transition. The verb "seek" might save it, but most won't notice that.

I guess I don't see any concepts at all there, just some cliche'd talking points.
I'm afraid that document might need to be shredded!

So, does he tell how to achieve these movements?  Which muscles to contract or relax, which body parts to move which way?  Telling us to do something is useless without telling how to accomplish that.

The best thing he shows is that many of the stupid old PSIA movements are tossed into the garbage.  Feet wider than the hips--garbage.  Two mainly straight legs turning under the body--garbage.  Up extension to release--garbage.  Does he address the newest bad fad, the tendency to ski in a crouch with very little angulation or counter?  That is garbage too, but seems to be one of the new things introduced with no reason why, and in a couple of years will disappear with no reason why.

Who's teaching these things mentioned in the second paragraph?  I've never had a trainer present any of that stuff and don't know anyone who uses those movements.  

I own the most recent DVD (2007?2008?), and feel a lot of these comments are out of context.  My impression is that the DVD doesn't even pretend to be an instructional piece.  Rather, the DVD shows great skiers demonstrating great skiing and encourages viewers to use visualization as a tool for incorporating the "concepts" that are mentionned.  No, it doesn't tell you HOW to achieve these movements, and we could debate for pages why this may or may not make it a "good" video.  I use it as something to help me when I am off the hill and am mulling over the coaching that I have received at ESA.

Your results may (obviously) vary.

Uhh...even on here there are lots of threads where extended to release is described as the normal, "right" way to do things, and where people flexing to release are told that they're not extending.  http://www.epicski.com/forum/thread/89368/down-unweighted-turns-good-or-bad-in-general-skiing

this one got sidetracked a bit but is one recent example.  There are older ones even more pointed that extending to release is the way to go.  I've personally seen lots of clinic thingies where there was so much flexing through the belly of the turn and extension to release I thought they were doing the Foxtrot.  It's not necessary to call someone out by name on a public forum to acknowledge that extending to release has been bread and butter for a long time.

 CTKook, Softsnowguy, Tog

What is your DVD titled again?....

If one goes around thinking there is only one correct way to ski, he/she would be sorely mistaken.    (CTKook) Your reference to flexion extension vs. retraction is an example of misunderstanding of ski technique and functional skiing.  If skiing were easy and uncomplicated and as simplistic as you would suggest, everyone would be a great skier.  If there was only one right way, there would only be one book to read and one DVD to watch, and one teaching method to follow, and one movement to master.  Realistically, there are many movements involved, which blended differently, produce many different outcomes, yet still provide the skier a means to move down the hill in balance and enjoyment.  Sean's simplistic, clear visual images and descriptions leave it up to the viewer to take whatever value they see fit from the footage.  You may certainly see other movements not highlighted you find valuable.  I can tell you the images of Benny Raich, and Michael Rogan, and Richard Jamason, are probably better images than most of us could offer to represent sound skiing.

Sean is not a dummy when it comes to recognizing good technique and movements and I am embarrassed for you guys making such silly comments without having even viewed his work?  Why the negativity?  

No, it was a response to someone saying they never'd heard of anyone recommending certain movements, including extending to release.  So, I linked to a recent thread where some people were pushing extending to release.  Real simple and clear, as people can read just up above.  Any other history you'd like to rewrite?

Extension to release is a valid movement.  What I was responding to was the "Up extension to release".  Up is the wrong direction for the extension and won't result in an efficient release into the new turn.  No trainer that I have worked with has promoted this. 

http://www.epicski.com/forum/thread/80277/d-team-tryout-video

Your last sentence may be your experience, but in general a pronounced up move is pretty current and pretty obvious.

It may be that the new talking head thing is all diagonal all the time...dunno.  If you've never heard anyone stress getting tall and over your skis at transition or any of the other buzzwords you've never heard it I guess.

The soundtrack ain't bad either.
JF

Amen Nolo, I stand on a balance disk while brushing my teeth and shaving.

 Oh! That explains the scars on your face and the pieces of tissue on your face in the locker room!...

Nolo, from the presentation
 

Adjusting foot to foot movements

•Weight transfer is smooth

–Dominate outside foot through two feet to dominate outside foot.

–Balance is directed toward outside ski as weight is re-distributed to two feet

–Outside ski bends more than inside ski –inside ski is grounded –using both skis

-Shoulders are level to the horizon through turn–

  

I hear conflicting statements as to where the shoulders should be.
This statement of "level to the horizon through turn" implies that they are level with the horizon at turn transition, turn neutral / skier neutral as well as when at the apex / fall line.
I also hear shoulders should be parallel to the slope.  This implies they are tilted with the slope at transition, turn neutral / skier neutral and not level with the horizon.  At the apex / fall line, both statements imply the same position.

I'm in the parallel to the slope camp but clarity would be helpful.  If in fact this is correct, then statements like "level with the horizon" are very misleading.

How about some more words about "Balance is directed toward outside ski as weight is re-distributed to two feet"?
Not sure what this means.

OK, on the shifting weight.

How about the shoulders?

 I just participated in a little clinic about this "problem." We were using double pole plants as the start of the turn. I thought the drill was one of the most helpful for lining up (the body) with the hill and reinforcing a stronger inside half. Originally, I was using this particular drill  to reinforce my hand placement, I kept dropping my left hand when making pole plants, when making pole plants, but I am sold on this drill now.

 Your saying that your ski is flat in the fall line?  Seems like it would be difficult to put any shape or pressure into the first half of the turn and that the second half would be over-pressured as the skier grasped for speed control.  I have seen 2-4-2 used as a device to slow the transition from edge to edge as an aid to shaping the first half of the turn and getting a more progressive extension/flexion or flexion/extension, depending on your edge release focus, for those turns.  Either way I like to be on my new edge long before the fall line.

I really am not sure what you're talking about.  I only know one fall line.  It's fixed and external to the skier.  What does completionation even mean?  Balanced over downhill ski, not braced against it sounds good to me.  Level out to match the pitch of the slope?  Match what to the pitch of the slope and when?  Your upper body or hands?  That would make sense, but that's angulation, not banking or inclination.  I also can't picture how some one could be inclinated and have a flat ski.  Inclination is a tool for building edge angle.  I totally agree with Rogans' quote.  The ski is flat and parallel at transition and that is the only time the ski is perfectly flat.  I am saying that transition doesn't happen in the fall line.  I'll admit to not having had a chance to view the DVD in question, but your description of the 2-4-2 drill didn't make sense to me, and still doesn't, and that the 2-4-2 drill would perfectly reinforce what Rogan was talking about. 

I just got around to looking at your link and see what you are saying.  I guess that I'm lucky to have access to some really good training.  I didn't think a lot of the skiers in your clip were skiing at an examiner level.  I can't really say too much about it as they are Eastern division and I'm Inter-mountain.  Maybe their standards and expectations are different.  I think that releasing on an extension with zero up movement is problematic.  The up movement doesn't do much to help you and ought to be minimized.  IMO the fore-agonal projection is releasing the old edge, engaging the new edge, and providing some shape to the top of the turn all at the same time.  You will be over your skis at transition regardless of how you release the edge.  In an extension you should be getting longer as you cross over, but in my mind you should reach maximum extension at the fall line not transition.  IMO this progressive extension and flexion promotes more active pressure control and shaping through the turn, carved or schmeared, improved speed control, and balance.  This progressive movement becomes harder for me as the turns become larger.  IE the faster you ski, the slower you move.

Also while I am saying that releasing on extension is a valid and useful technique, I will also use flexion, and tactical air to release an edge.  I think a good skier develops a large bag of tricks and uses the technique or skill blend best suited to the occasion.  I find that a flexion turn is very versatile and seems to be the best starting point for most skiers.

Things like terrain unweighting will obviously, almost by definition, have some up element so long as you have any absorption range left before you unweight.  And there are definitely on-snow reasons to do things that you wouldn't as a general rule -- say coaching a tentative intermediate with decent fundamentals to drive the new OUTSIDE hand because they're so effing intimidated by the fall line that it's the only way to get them to commit.  So if that's what you mean by bag of tricks, certainly. 

But, most (all, really) skiers ski remarkably the same no matter the situation, which is why you can pick out people you know just by seeing the skiing.  Joe will ski like Joe whether on steeps, powder, crud, bumps or firm groomers.  That's why that good sound starting point makes so much sense.  And in particular where you have large vertical with a variable snowpack, you do have a good lab that sorts what works, for sure.