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Gondola vs. Tram - Page 2

post #31 of 47
Don't care personally. It is all about the down...
post #32 of 47

This is a pretty cool lift, the Tschuggen Coaster at Arosa:

coaster.jpg

 

 

 

 

post #33 of 47
The gondola at the closer hill is so installed that suffers from high winds (it's been built in a gorge).
Oftentimes they have to shut it down in the afternoon because of that.
Since it's the only way up and down from/to the ski area to/from the parking lot, if the gondola is shut down for said high winds, people have a long trek back down....
Kids and unhealthy peopel are usually "carried" down the mountain by the station personnel and/or by the carabinieri using 4x4 and/or skidoos. But grown ups and healthy people...have to walk.
So, first rule when going there, always have a pair of shoes or boots (which I confess I don't follow, despite being no snow coverage, or being only partial, from the runs to the parking, I think that if it will ever happen while I'm up there, I'll ski as down as possible and then hike in my boots, for which I have the cat tracks. It'll be painful but oh, well) in the backpack, or if theres' a possibility of high wind, come down before 3 p.m.
This said, many old(er) trams are being replaced by gondolas, because of the higher uphill capacity.
Piz La Ila in La Villa, when the tram was being operated, the queue to board it was huuuge, now, with a gondola it's much better
Corvara, same thing
Passo Tonale, same
Madesimo, the gondola Prickly refers to, did replace the first part of the old tram...
Porta Vescovo in Arabba, the tram has not been replaced but a gondola has been built beside it

[Dark humour] Not to mention that trams are installed higher up from the ground and jet fighters, this side of the pond, have a bad habit to cut their cables [/Dark humour]
post #34 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcmaxwell View Post

 Though I've never ridden it, Aiguille du Midi must be the best Tram ever.
Scariest yes. The 2nd one as it goes straight up the rock face. Didn't help that a stayed up to late the night before drinking with 2 Irish lesbians. What that has to do with anything I am not sure but...
post #35 of 47
I saw a woman pass out in the tram in Klosters in December. The problem with a tram on a crowded day is that you have hours of poorly-behaved herding the goes on before you even get on the thing (and in Europe, that usually means an aggressive mob), and then you get squeezed in like sardines. The trick of getting in last isn't exactly a difficult one to figure out, so everyone tries to do that, which just makes the situation worse.

Assuming you could just as easily build a gondola (which is not always the case), the only advantage a tram has is to limit the number of people on the mountain at one time.

Just missing a tram sucks. Also, many trams will wait either until a certain number of people are on them or as Prickly wrote they will run on a schedule, which also sucks.

They look cool, though.

My favourite is probably the Eibseebahn from Grainau to the top of the Zugpsizte in Germany. It's slow and small and doesn't even access that great of skiing, but damn it's impressive.
post #36 of 47
Only tram I've ridden is at Jay.

My main beef with it is a good portion of the line is inside where you standing on a big staircase.  If it were behind big opens windows facing the mountain so you had some eye candy while you waited it wouldn't be bad.  Standing there in a wood box, even for ten minutes, kinda sucks.

I hugely miss the old gondi on 'loaf, even though it was on windhold 2 out of 3 days.  When it ran you could do 2600' vert a lap.

For the most part I now prefer fast quads.  Don't have to take my skis off and on.  That slows me done.  I like skiing on and off with no pauses.
post #37 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smellytele View Post



Scariest yes. The 2nd one as it goes straight up the rock face. Didn't help that a stayed up to late the night before drinking with 2 Irish lesbians. What that has to do with anything I am not sure but...
 

If EVER a post begged for a trip report with pictures, this is it.
post #38 of 47
Either mode is awesome but; Trams Rule! 

This humble mind is awe struck by either one.  There is a psychological form of foreplay riding a tram or a gondi.  These lifts are just special.  If there is any kind of visibility the images of all the candy you are about to sample. 

The vibe of these lifts are really cool too; the posers being themselves, first timers being overwhelmed, locals being cool.   I'm the guy with nose pressed against the window going,"wow".  The mountains just by being there trumps it all.  From personal experiences the enclosed lifts give more vertical and length and a bigger playground.  The height of a tram just accentuates all of this for me (A shot of the Titlis tram is my wallpaper, really want to go there when I grow up.).

Have not ridden the Peak  2 Peak yet but looks like it could fill most my senses, other than vertical rise.  Any comments from those that have?
post #39 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobody View Post

[Dark humour] Not to mention that trams are installed higher up from the ground and jet fighters, this side of the pond, have a bad habit to cut their cables [/Dark humour]
 

But only when it's flown by an air force from the "other" side of the pond!
post #40 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by at_nyc View Post

But only when it's flown by an air force from the "other" side of the pond!

We don't have a monopoly on that. The French Air Force knocked one down too.
post #41 of 47
Waiting for the tram sucks but many years ago Jackson Hole had solved this issue nicely. You went up to the tram booth and they punched your ticket for the next available tram ride and you could go away, have lunch, ski somewhere else until your tram time arrived. No waiting, no wasted time in line and you were certain that you were going to be able to get on. I suppose some wiseguy invested in a hole punch of his own and blew the whole system! Oh well!
post #42 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic View Post

We don't have a monopoly on that. The French Air Force knocked one down too.

So the French managed to defeat a tram?
post #43 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by oisin View Post

Waiting for the tram sucks but many years ago Jackson Hole had solved this issue nicely. You went up to the tram booth and they punched your ticket for the next available tram ride and you could go away, have lunch, ski somewhere else until your tram time arrived. No waiting, no wasted time in line and you were certain that you were going to be able to get on. I suppose some wiseguy invested in a hole punch of his own and blew the whole system! Oh well!

Aguille du Midi and Grand Montets in Chamonix and the Eibseebahn on the Zugspitze also allow reservations, and I'm sure there are more. The trouble is that you have no idea how long the actual wait is if you don't have a reservation. It also means the trams are running on a schedule and therefore not as often as they theoretically could. It also makes it impossible to efficently do laps on the tram (although that's not an issue for the Aguille du Midi or Eibseebahn anyway).

That is admitedly different from what you describe at Jackson Hole, and that actually sounds like a reasonable way of controlling crowds on a busy day. It would certainly beat the 90 minutes I once spent standing in a staircase in Argentiere. Sitting in a cafe drinking coffee and eating a croisant would have been much more enjoyable. With the SkiData cards used across Europe, it would be a pretty easy system to implement as well.
post #44 of 47
tram is the only way to access some really extreme and high terrain like Big Sky, MT or la grave in france
post #45 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by at_nyc View Post




But only when it's flown by an air force from the "other" side of the pond!

Not true.
There have been many reports about jets flying or attempting to fly uderneath tram cables lines. Not everyone was an USAF/Marines/Navy jet. In Italy, only two appears to have had mortal consequences that I know of because had a high mediatic impact, both at the same place, the Alpe Cermis.
But as an example, in the late '80s (summer 1987) an Italian Air Force MB326 (jet trainer, the predecessor to the MB339) did flow too close to the Falzarego pass tram and cut a cable.  Thanks luck, by a combination of factors the trams did not fall (there are no towers in between the top and bottom stations, which may have been part of the problem, first rule at flight school I was taught, don't look for cables, look for towers!)
maybe because the cable cut was the traction one and not the main one...




Quote:
Originally Posted by epic View Post




We don't have a monopoly on that. The French Air Force knocked one down too.
1961, Mont Blanc, Aiguille du Midi


Anyway, this is going OT.
I have no personal preferences as for Trams or Gondolas. I do agree with Sosumi, Trams were the first way devised by man to access otherwise un-accessible parts of a mountain. And in some cases are still so.
As examples
Passo Falzarego again, I don't see the Tram there can be replaced by  Gondi.
Passo Pordoi, same thing, these two places are too steep for a gondi to be built in place of the Tram... 
Edited by Nobody - 2/14/10 at 7:26am
post #46 of 47
The reason given was that the new tram, Italy?, was not yet on the air force maps.

It's a know fact that fighter jocks are thrill seakers, and many are skiers. They love to overfly Lake Tahoe and buzz Squaw. It's awesome and sometimes startles you as they appear from under a ridge as if out of nowhere and blast over you while you're hiking up top. Once in a while you know they see you as they do a wing dip in greeting.
post #47 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post

The reason given was that the new tram, Italy?, was not yet on the air force maps.

It's a know fact that fighter jocks are thrill seakers, and many are skiers. They love to overfly Lake Tahoe and buzz Squaw. It's awesome and sometimes startles you as they appear from under a ridge as if out of nowhere and blast over you while you're hiking up top. Once in a while you know they see you as they do a wing dip in greeting.


The tram (Cavalese, Alpe Cermis) was not new
Been there since a long time. Renewed and rebuilt, yes; new, no.

Anyway, my OT was, as said, an attempt to some dark humour to give reason why many of the Trams are being replaced by Gondis here in Italy. I don't want this to become the main subject of the thread otherwise we risk to have it moved into the P&HT section...

The increase of tourists access during the winter season has caused the need to move from trams to gondolas in may places, to alleviate the waiting times that we all experienced, or at least that me and my friends experienced till the mid '90s...
So, whenever is possible the flexibility of a gondi has been preferred to the old way (the tram).
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