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Stability & the White Pass turn...

post #1 of 13
Thread Starter 
After re-reading some of the various and verbose balance threads, I just thought I'd bring this up. On the final day of the clinic the White Pass Turn was demonstrated to us by Bob Barnes, Nolo, Ziggy and Carolyn (from Brighton).
They did not fall over. They remained in control. I didn't have the faith to make those turns until a few days later in Alta, but the turns go against a lot of the thinking about weight on the outside ski.
Just thought I'd throw this in for comments.

See here for more:
http://www.epicski.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=next_topic;f=4;t=001240;go=olde r

post #2 of 13
Fox, actually it is not the white pass turn, it is the white pass lean. This distinction is important because it may be the source of your confusion. The white pass lean is simply an alternative means of turn initiation. It allows for a very quick turn initiation when needed, but inside ski pressure is only maintained at the top of the turn when forces are relatively low. Weight distribution is quickly converted over to the outside ski, and by the end of the turn when forces are at there highest the majority of the forces are being resisted by the outside ski as in any conventional turn. The outside ski is always the most efficient instrument for resisting centrifugal forces and it is utilized even in the white pass lean.
post #3 of 13
I believe that during the White Pass segment of the clinic, we explained that this is synonymous with "weighted release."

Fastman, I agree with your analysis. I can do great turns on my inside ski, because I have practiced it so much for so long. Adaptive skiers without the use of two legs can dial in turns on the inside ski quite well, but one still doesn't have the strength, power, and refinement on the outside edge as on the inside edge due to the physics of skiing and the biomechanics of human anatomy.

Fox, I'm glad you kept at it. WR is a very smooth move to have in your bag of tricks.
post #4 of 13
I liked the way Bob B. 'tricked' us into the 'WPT' or weighted release (WR) as nolo termed it. I won't go into details in consideration of those of you that haven't yet done the progressions to get there. Why spoil the fun. This drill and the cowboy turn, rolling the inside knee into the turn, helped me begin to use both edges to turn hence, using the new sidecuts to maximum effect.

So Fox, you have been able to initiate the White Pass Turn? Congratulations [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img] I thought that edge control was one of your strenghts. Now if only I can finish my turns. Like you, since the Academy I've been taking the time to practice before I turn them loose. Tomorrow I'll have a hard time slowing down to practice. That is if I make it to the slopes at all. I'll take some of the ideas we worked on and see if I can apply them to the deep.
post #5 of 13
As I was off with Weems and the Loose Ladies, I did not participate in the White Pass Turn demo. As Nolo states, it is a weighted release turn. I have been using for a few years just as something different to do while skiing. But it has a more important use. It teaches to use all four edges of the skis while weighted. This comes in particularly useful in bump situations when you get on an inside little toe edge. You have been there and done that, so it's not a big deal to ride it out.
post #6 of 13
Fox--congratulations on "getting the faith"!

I expect that many real breakthroughs from the EpicSki Academy still lie ahead for most of us. While there were enormous changes made at the Academy, remember that LEARNING BEGINS WHEN YOU'VE GOT IT RIGHT! Many seeds of change were sown at the Academy, but they will need nurturing and a great deal of practice to really flourish!


Best regards,
Bob Barnes
post #7 of 13
Thread Starter 
It happened on Rock and Roll - under the Supreme lift at Alta. I'd been messing around trying to do it, and just couldn't get over far enough, then I just thought I'd lean waaaaayyyyyy over like I didn't know what I was doing (expecting someone on the lift to scream down about how much of a beginner I looked), when all of a sudden the inside edge gripped on a left turn, then I switched over and did it on a right as well...

post #8 of 13
Remember Bob telling us the story about the gent that 'got it' and would yell "dive and have faith"? You got the faith!

(edit to correct quote)

[ February 17, 2003, 06:09 AM: Message edited by: Springhill Crazie (SprgHlCrz) ]
post #9 of 13
Fox & Rob--

You guys both make sense. So much of it is feel and commitment. And that is hard to articulate.
post #10 of 13
I saw some folks dabbling with the White Pass (turn/lean?)and got a bit confused. It reminded me of the offspring that would result if one-footed skiing and tracer turns got together and had a baby. [img]smile.gif[/img]

I was having trouble distinguishing it from what I think of as "Charleston". How do the two differ?

To make matters more puzzling, there was disagreement in the group about the point in the turn when the outside ski hits the snow. Can someone describe the job of outside ski in this exercise?

Last, could I bother ya'll for a clarification of the term "weighted release". Am I right in thinking that it might refer to turn initiation with an strong emphasis on edge change rather than an extension move?

And, doh, it just occurred to me, does anyone have any video of the White Pass move or know of a link containing the video. If so, ignore all of the above questions!

I am soooo trying to catch up with you guys. Have just found the forum this season and am totally loving it. What an amazing resource!

Gratefully, for all your collective wisdom and spirit,

post #11 of 13
The White Pass Turn was called by some "delayed weight transfer" until weight transfer became politically incorrect. Harald Harb (maybe) dubbed it a "weighted release," meaning that to initiate a turn, the skier's weight on the inside edge of the stance ski is rolled to the outside edge, after which one's weight is allowed to flow to the outside ski assisted by centrifugal force. It is a two-footed turn.

To do the Charleston is to make turns on the outside edge of the inside ski, with the outside ski elevated above the snow. It is a one-footed turn. Some say there should be a hop from outside edge to outside edge, but I consider that an elementary Charleston. I like to see a smooth transition and I want to see the skis go arc to arc (e.g., not a crabwalk).

Both encourage advanced skiing movements, subtlety, and agility. Weighted release is a cornerstone of my skiing and I use Charleston with advanced skiers to encourage a centered stance, using all four edges, and athleticism. I actually taught two classes the Charleston last week as a lead-in to skiing steep couloirs and fall-line bumps.
post #12 of 13
I am soooo trying to catch up with you guys. Have just found the forum this season and am totally loving it. What an amazing resource!
Settle down this is a family SKI forum!!!

The White Pass turn is a turn with a funny name that is pulled out whenever one wants to baffle fellow skiers. It is quite often quoted by ballroom dance teachers ... remember that it is important information.

Oz [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ February 22, 2003, 01:32 PM: Message edited by: man from oz ]
post #13 of 13
Thread Starter 
If you've ever seen nolo ski, you'll know she is as graceful as a ballet dancer.
If I can manage to make the White Pass turns again, I will, cause they do improve your trust in the skis.

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