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post #31 of 34
Originally posted by milesb:
How did gonzo get a hold of Rusty's computer?
What a delicious burn.... the burn of 50 squats with a 100lb bar, the burn of passing out in S.F. ( or prison) and waking up unable to sit down for a week.

One shot , two kills
post #32 of 34
This thread has been busy today!

I'll take full credit for being the bad guy here. I do, however take issue with a couple of comments and then I'm done. I will say that even through the strife and warfare, I have learned a bit... even if I don't agree.

1. I do not think Ski Coach is stupid, nor did I have any intent to make him feel that way. I read his posts and got some great answers from him. I understood where he was coming from full on. I never got a satisfactory answer concerning his statement "Rotary has nothing to do with it." That's what I was challenging. His contention THEN was that femoral rotation was incidental to the edging maneuver. Fine. Mine was that edging can the end result of deliberate rotary in the legs. He uses the front door... I use the side. I also thought I had made exactly clear my use of rotary, but I just had to be wrong so that my cup could be emptied to fill someone else's.

2. If I seem defensive, I can explain EXACTLY why. Every season someone outside PSIA looking in comes up with some percieved short-coming and exploits it... exposes it... and PUBLISHES it. Mostly after completely missing one point or another. Then I have people coming to me and saying "I don't think I should take a lesson cuz I read on the internet/ski mag/intructional video that PSIA is a bunch of jerk-offs and that they don't understand how to use these new skis, or how to teach at all because their certifications are worthless. PSIA doesn't now a cow-pie from apple butter about sh**." Melodramatic? Not. This happens more than you think. It's not only hard to keep business, it's hard to recruit good skiers to be instructors because they think we are a joke, based on some ham-handed comment made by someone who knows nothing about the organization in the first place.

"I don't come to where you work and throw rocks atcha when yer mowin', so shut up!" - Rodney Carrington -

As a high-profile skier on a small mountain (on a big hill I'm barely a blip on the screen), I'm approached as someone who has some information on anything skiing. When these people show, It takes a lot out of me to explain, over and over again, what it is we are working towards with skiing and dammit it's frustrating! I really do apologize for my lapse earlier in the thread, but we couldn't even agree to disagree! It sucks when that happens... for everyone involved.

Anyway. I hope we can get by all this because this really is the best place for info on skiing. I really apologize to those who are combing this thread hoping to understand anything about carving. Who's right? PSIA? Coaches?

The answer is simple... Neither. Both. Pick out what you need and please discard all the crap we've thrown in.

blah blah blah.

Spag [img]graemlins/angel.gif[/img]
post #33 of 34
Well said Spag.

The comments about my computer and gonz made me nearly bust my gut. You guys can be very, very funny.
post #34 of 34
I guess I will come down on the side of ski coach a bit here. There is definitely a big difference in terminology between ski coach and us PSIA types but he makes a convincing point for not changing. True, he started off wrong by acting aynonomous with his web site.

Ski coach make the point that he sees the same racers every day or week. They know him and how he talks. If he were to change his terminology here, he would likely go back next season and confuse his entire racing group. We on the other hand see new all the time and must be consistent with terminology. To me that is a convincing enough argument for me to cut through the BS and try to figure out what he is really saying rather than demand that he use PSIA terminology.

I don't really disagree with anything that he has on his web site and in fact like it very much. When I look at what he is saying here from the perspective of what he has on his web site and the job he must contend with, I don't disagree with his no rotary thing approach.

Ski coach never said that rotary of the kind that Rusty and Spag have pointed out does not exist and in fact, he acknowledge that it does. What he is condending with is excited racers who crank the outside ski by twisting it. The only way he can probably be effective with those folks is to say "There is no Rotary, stop twisting you're feet" Saying there is no rotary does not mean that racers will not use rotary in the correct sense. Indeed they have too but, is it more confusing at the racer level to teach rotary and/or is good rotary a result of good skiing.

I have seen Fastman agree completely with the principals that Rusty and others believe in. I also see Fastman agreeing with the approach that Ski coach is taking. I myself don't see a problem with the way ski coach is approaching modern technique for his situation.

That said I do not think that ski coach has any idea where the leading edge of PSIA is right now. I can tell you that much of what is readily available in print from PSIA is outdated. I can tell you that PSIA has its own problems and need for changes. I will also tell you that I think that PSIA is the best thing out there right now.

When I look at most ski coaches teaching kids to race on the hill and listen to what they are saying, I just shake my head and could convincingly believe that USSCA is woefully inaddequate and teaching roatation by driving the outside hand trough the turn. Am I wrong by judging an organization by and rooky ski coach? You bet. I can equally go out on the hill and find plenty of badge totting instructors teaching incorrect rotary on the ski hill. I could easily conclude that PSIA is still teaching twisting the feet into a skid.

My last point is where some of the contention seems to be here in this forum. As Spag points out, there are more than a few wanna be's out there that exploit the all to familiar scenes of the instructor pushing twisting rotary and say "That is bad, that is what PSIA is all about". Its a sore spot with me and with Rusty and Spag and others. I don't think that ski coach has those intentions if I take everything he has said in context. His choice of words at times has been less that what he wanted but I can look past that in the context of everything else he said. He has certainly come across as condecending but again, from the context of everyting he has said, I don't think he really thinks that way. Again I think his choice of words has been less than what he wanted.

I would much rather have the diversity of people who think outside the box than everyone totting the say can of worms.

Fastman, as for David M., I really loved what the guy was saying but absolutely hated how he was saying it.
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