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post #1 of 28
Thread Starter 
What can we say about fulfillment, given the variation in guest desires? I am convinced that when a person has a moment and asks the existential question, "Why am I here?" the answer is to achieve freedom, or what Maslow calls self-actualization. To be ME in all honesty, which makes me fast, effective, quick, bright, intuitive, attuned, etc. SAs are in the MOMENT (not to be cofused with SCSA's other thing). They SHOW UP. They see what's on the end of the fork. They can be more direct about things, more aware about what's happening, less attached to an outcome as trusting in a process. Without all the masks, a person can really see and move--a person can really GO.

It is quite addicting. But instead of setting off a vicious cycle of more this addiction sets off a virtuous cycle of more. The personal growth in the one area spills over into other areas of the person's life.

This goes for ALL of us. Guests. Instructors.

The WAY: the Roads to Freedom. The WAY is a continuum, like a river. It is a never-ending process of becoming. Read Carl Rogers: On Becoming a Person.

The process is our product. It's what we know. It's what we love.

I am off now for a few days. I look forward to seeing what becomes of this thread.
post #2 of 28


post #3 of 28
What can we say about fulfillment, given the variation in guest desires?

(I got that part.)

I think we can say... win some, lose some.
post #4 of 28
We can't afford to lose any.
post #5 of 28
Did someone say "drink"? FOX!!!
post #6 of 28
I think its about taking risks to achieve a goal or make a discovery. Some people are more comfortable trying something new or difficult and have the self-confidence to handle looking foolish. Fear of looking foolish, getting injured, or losing control hold many people back.
post #7 of 28
Maslow had a pyramid in mind when he spoke of this. He indicated that you need all of the basics to be an "actualized" individual. His most basic level for the pyramid was .... food (good beer & chili), clothing (Marmot or North Face) and shelter (Stein's at DV).

The mid-level of the pyramid would be yer edjamacation ....... and environmental factors. Again, DV would be fine for this. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Top of the pyramid is your terminal tackle. The latest offering from Stockli or Volkl usually works for me.

Unlimited Heli would be a cherry on top ....

I would be very actualized and even happy too!

But I NEVER forgave my sister for trashing my Teddy Bear! :
post #8 of 28
Uh, "guest"?

I'm in Target asking for a raincheck, and the clerk (host??????) refers to me as a "guest" needing a raincheck. Huh? I really don't mind being referred to as a "customer". Is this some new PC thing? Customers have now become guests?

Back to the topic which I can't answer because I really don't think that hard.
post #9 of 28
Go into a Disney Store, where the employees are referred to as "cast members", and the customers as the "audience".

post #10 of 28
Sounds like me at the end of a big night out. Normally conclude thought that the answer to Life, the Universe and everything, really is 42!
post #11 of 28

What we do for a living is teach skiing. Who's motivations are we trying to satify? Are we satifying our own motivations/ Or are we satisfying the motivations of the student? And whose motivations need to be satisfied in order for the student to return for further instruction?

There have been a few flipant posts in this thread. All too often that is the attitude of a lot of instructors. Unless we all start paying attention to student motivation, our return business is going to continue to slide downhill. Frequently, a student will come away from a lesson, quite confused. The reason is the instructor did not spend the time to assure that the student understood what was happening in regards to the new movements that were introduced. If the student understood what was going on, the motivation probably would have been satisfied.
post #12 of 28
Originally posted by Pete:
Sounds like me at the end of a big night out. Normally conclude thought that the answer to Life, the Universe and everything, really is 42!
So what do you say, everybody? Do we all take a sip of beer each time somebody quotes The Hitchikers Guide?

Rick, I think its not only about what student's motivation is, but how to KEEP them motivated!
post #13 of 28
Hi Rick H--

While I don't disagree in any way with your emphasis on the absolute necessity of addressing the motivations of the student, we have to remember that our job must also satisfy our OWN motivations. We cannot sacrifice our OWN needs as instructors and human beings, if we want to remain effective for our students!

Part of the motivation--a large part, indeed--of any successful instructor is that we actually WANT our students to have great experiences with us. We take it personally when they don't--not only because it affects our bank accounts, but because it hurts us personally. Their success motivates us. Their failure does not meet OUR needs!

So the answer to your question, "Are we satifying our own motivations/ Or are we satisfying the motivations of the student?" HAS to be..."BOTH"! We simply cannot sacrifice our own needs for the good of the student, nor theirs for ours! They are co-dependent, inseparably intertwined. The loss of one is the loss of both.


Best regards,
Bob Barnes
post #14 of 28
Find a path that gives you adventure and passion,
seek to explore it's side roads and ditches,
so that you may discover it's true direction, it's heart,
and share, if you care to, your findings,
so that others may find their own path as well.........
post #15 of 28
I think I'm way too sober for this thread.
post #16 of 28
Has anyone else noticed how much Eddie Van Halen is starting to resemble Keith Richards?
post #17 of 28
Right you are Bob! An instructor who is ambivilent about making learning a partnership or isn't sure why they do this both internally and externally is in the wrong biz.
Many times I have seen that frustration in the lockeroom where a pro has had that connection elude them. "You as a pro have the obligation to reach out and inspire, to be the best you can be! The guest has the obligation to be ready, willing and able to be the best they can be!" At the end of the day, reflect on why it didn't work and grow....don't take it personally or dwell on it!
post #18 of 28
Robin and Bob,

Of course we instructors need motivations in the way that you described. However, what I was referring to, is the agendas that a lot of instructors set for the student, well before the lesson begins.

For instance, the instructor decides that this student should be learning to ski bumps but the student wants to work on carving medium radius turns. Clearly, the needs and desires of the student are not being met. And clearly, the instructor had different motivations than the students. Moreover, the student's desires and needs have to come before the instructor's. Let's take the instructor above. He/she gets to the ski area in the morning and looks at a bump run and decides that bumps would be fun on that day and that is what is going to be taught. The agenda is set. When meeting the student, the student describes what he/she wants. At that point, the instructor's agenda must take a back seat or the students desires and need will not be met.

Another situation that I have seen. An instructor wants to teach a high level class, but is assigned a beginner classs. The instructor is disappointed and the quality of teach reflects the disappointment. And the students suffer. Another agenda problem!
post #19 of 28
Geez Rick, without sounding too flippant....what kinda of posers are you working with? The kind of narcisstic, self involvement you describe should not be tolerated by any organization. With out doubt, we have all taught first timers while the muffled giggles of our colleagues are still audible on an epic powder day! That is when the pro looks to his students and says...."looks like fun doesn't it? That may be your goal someday!"
Hidden agendas etc, have no place in this profession. I will agree that sometimes we "steer" guests to "mutual" goals....after all, when asked what they would like to achieve/explore/work on or to state their goals, the answer is sometimes, "I dunno, you tell me what I need"
post #20 of 28
Isn't what we're talking about here the GCT model? And, yes, "G" does stand for "Guest".


What is their initial motivation? Does it change? Is it truly their motivation? How well do they comprehend their own skiing and what is going on with it? What movements do they have that reflect both motivation and comprehension?

This goes for the instructor as well. What is our motivation? Is it TRULY to have the guest ski better? Have fun? Good experiences? Are we just looking for the tip or the beer at the end of the day? How do well do we comprehend ourselves as as well as our guest? And, do we understand their movements?

How do we fascilitate this?

Self Actualization. I have not studied Maslow, but for me, self-actualization in skiing is HAVING FUN. Make sure you guest A) has a great time (so they want to keep coming back and B) learns something (so they know all this fun is worthwhile).

That about it covers it for me...
post #21 of 28
Elanore Roosevelt was on of the individuals that Maslow used as an example of an "actualized" person. She had financial comfort and status as well as mobility and power and was fully at ease with her position.

Using a "real world" example among the Bears, Ott is probably as close to this as you can get. He spent long enough on top of his game and now has a position of relative and secure comfort, relative of course to his past and his future.

The average line instructor .... unelss they happen to be a "trustafarian" can't become actualized. As long as you are stressed regarding the basics, things like paying the rent or getting to the hill because of a clunker car will keep you from that level.

Now Ott can fill us in on how Elanore did in the bumps!

[ April 21, 2002, 01:55 PM: Message edited by: yuki ]
post #22 of 28

Yup, that is what we are talking about. A gentleman by the name of Kim Peterson said to me, "If you can address the affective, cognitive and phycho-motor domains of a student, you can teach anyone." After reading Mosston and Ashworth's "Teaching Physical Education," those cryptic words became very clear.

Kim Peterson developed the Guest Centered Instruction at Winter Park in the mid '90s. Later, working with Harald Harb, he developed PMTS's "Student Directed Ski Instruction". Now PSIA's RMD has adopted the Winter Park format. My comment to that is, the guest is the winner! It all comes back to those words from Kim; affective (motivation and needs), cognitive (understanding)and psycho-motor (movement).

I have been using SDSI for three years. At first is seems cumbersome. But as you get into it, it just seems to flow. And everyone benefits from the system.
post #23 of 28
At the risk of sounding a bit corny, i have had students ask me what I love about the sport, and teaching. It's with great difficulty that I struggle through so many thoughts and emotions to describe why.
More recently, I've gotten into the habit of just say, "It's what makes my heart beat in the mornings!".

Sometimes, if I'm feeling a bit more sarcastic, I'll start off by asking, "I wonder what the rich people are doing today while we're skiing!".

Whether this completely answers the question of self-actualization or fulfillment, I won't say. But I have very little stress in my life, live in beautiful places, and get paid to do something I adore.

I won't complain about my life!

post #24 of 28
So you cannot become "actualized" as a pro skier unless you are wealthy (Trustifarian)? Hmmm, thankfully, that is not true!

There are a lot of very centered, enlightened, and "actualized" people on this planet who do not always know where the next meal is coming from, and not only don't have clunkers of a car - but perhaps cannot afford any car at all!

[ April 21, 2002, 08:20 PM: Message edited by: Todd M. ]
post #25 of 28
What about the fufillment involved in knowing that you are leaving a "legacy." Recently some of the younger instructors I work with have been showing up in the more "cutting edge" workshops I recommended to them.

Its not only fufilling to creative ways to teach your students. Inspiring other teachers to think outside the box is awesome!
post #26 of 28
OK, do you mind if I don't use any of the current "fashion" words for describing what I see as the way.


It's infectious.

No, not the love between a man and a fine cuban cigar.
The love for something/someone that makes you want to eat, sleep, breath that thing. That thing which is the last you think of going to bed at night, and the first you think of in the morning.
So, a good teacher:
1. Loves the subject they are teaching.
2. Loves people.
Fail at either of these, and you may get the lesson plan completed, and technically the skiers may improve, but the enthusiasm that you have (or should have) will not be passed on, and most people are able to spot that.

What I'm trying to say is this "way", this "path to freedom", this "embiggenment" is not something new, nor is it something which can be taught. Without love, you're just like the big gong at the start of Rank movies. Lots of noise, but no substance. True freedom does not come from knowledge, it comes from the heart.

post #27 of 28
The love for something/someone that makes you want to eat, sleep, breath that thing. That thing which is the last you think of going to bed at night, and the first you think of in the morning.
You talking about a pint of Guinness then?
post #28 of 28
Thread Starter 
I sense the embarrassment, but I don't want to let you off the hook. What are you instructors doing out there on the hill? I have to say that I have very seldom had students request me to teach them a carved medium radius turn. They usually just want me to help them move to the next level, whatever that is. Usually that involves a discovery process that involves uncovering their motivation, such as: I want to ski with someone who likes to ski in places where I do not feel comfortable. Given, many of my clients, guests, people are women, who often come to class with an external motivation. I feel it is my duty to find the internal motivation, because external motivators are not sufficient to go the distance, and I am motivated to have my students go the distance with me.

I honestly believe that motor skills instructors are DYING to know more about how people learn, and primary to that necessary background is understanding human motivational theory, such as that of Carl Rogers, Abe Maslow, Timothy Gallwey, and Parker Palmer.

You can laugh it off, but I guarantee you will be more successful with students if you are more skilled at applying sport psych.
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