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Whay type of ski to get?

post #1 of 19
Thread Starter 
Hey Folks: 

Since I am all excited about my progress in GS racing (see other thread) at my local course I decide to invest in a dedicated race ski.  I noticed on my home course which is very short, some people are skiing GS skis and others slalom skis.  Can someone explain which is better? and which I should get and what length.  I want to stay with the Atomic line . Can someone recommend a ski for me.  

A little bit of background on our hill.  Our course is 8 gates.  The vertical of our hill is 200feet.  The racing is done on an intermediate run. More like green on any big mountain :)  But we gain enough speed that I would probably get hurt if I fell.  

I am 6'4" 190lbs.  I have been skiing since I was a kid but have never raced.  This year I joined a beer league and I am loving it.  

I am fine with buying used so if you have a suggestion I would love to hear it.  I am currently skiing on Atomic Crimson TI 176cm.

Thanks,

calude
post #2 of 19
DO NOT GET  ATOMIC LT 11's. I am a racer with similar conditions as you, I got them for my birthday as my first gs ski. My dad said it would be better for the shorter radius turns, but they suck, I can ski out of them and i am 140 lbs.
post #3 of 19
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the reply IMT00FIERCE.  

I was primarily looking at a longer SL12 in say 165cm or 170cm or s shorter GS12 in 170cm or 175cm, however I am not sure if these are correct sizes for me.  I have been researching and this is what I came up with.  I would love to get opinions from people on this forum.  

I cannot seem to get a good answer on why some people choose a slalom ski for GS racing and others use a GS ski.  At the least I would like to pointed in the right direction on the pros and cons of each.

Thanks for the heads up.  I will stay away from the LT11.  

Thanks, 

Claude
 

Edited by BigK75 - 2/9/10 at 6:41am
post #4 of 19
Claude -

The LT11 and LT12 aren't bad skis for beer league.  Yes, they're not quite as burly as the GS11/GS12, but they do fine and are tough to overpower.  I'm 6' 4", 190 lbs., as well, though I come from a racing background that's been fairly consistent over the years.

You can overpower the LT skis, but that's only if you ski them in a brutal way: with all power, no snow feel, etc (frankly, I find it very tough to think that a 140 lbs. person, skiing well with sound technique and line, would overpower a properly sized and tuned pair of LT11/12 Atomics).  If they're well tuned and one of the stiffer pairs made in a proper length for you, they should be just fine for your hill setup.  If you are at all worried, you should look into the GS11/12 if you can find a pair that's of the older sidecut profile (i.e. 21 meters or less).  But I think that the LT11/12 would be just fine, provided the pair is in good shape and tuned properly.

Just my $0.02.
post #5 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by songfta View Post

Claude -

The LT11 and LT12 aren't bad skis for beer league.  Yes, they're not quite as burly as the GS11/GS12, but they do fine and are tough to overpower.  I'm 6' 4", 190 lbs., as well, though I come from a racing background that's been fairly consistent over the years.

You can overpower the LT skis, but that's only if you ski them in a brutal way: with all power, no snow feel, etc (frankly, I find it very tough to think that a 140 lbs. person, skiing well with sound technique and line, would overpower a properly sized and tuned pair of LT11/12 Atomics).  If they're well tuned and one of the stiffer pairs made in a proper length for you, they should be just fine for your hill setup.  If you are at all worried, you should look into the GS11/12 if you can find a pair that's of the older sidecut profile (i.e. 21 meters or less).  But I think that the LT11/12 would be just fine, provided the pair is in good shape and tuned properly.

Just my $0.02.
 

Maybe he had his 40 lb. weight vest on.
post #6 of 19
Thread Starter 
Hey Songfta: 

Can you tell me what the difference is between the LT11 and LT12.  Are these good skis for a guy in a beer league or should I be looking for GS11 or 12 for my weight (190lbs).  When you say "more burly" what do you mean by that.  I was thinking 175cm.  Is this too short too long?

I'm a beginner racer, but long time skier, would you recommend a GS ski with a short radius like 16m or a longer slalom ski like SL12 in a longer length like 165cm.  

Thanks,
Claude
post #7 of 19
Thread Starter 
I was thinking something like this: 

http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-sell-sports-bikes-Atomic-GS-12-Race-Skis-174cm-W0QQAdIdZ185063049

Although the price might be a bit steep.

Claude
post #8 of 19
It's not gonna make that much difference.  I race Masters, and we often train a 9 or 10 gate short course on a hill that sounds like it's almost identical to yours.  I'm currently using one of two pairs of 184 cm. Atomic D2 GSs, which have a 26-meter sidecut.  One of my teammates is using a 181 cm GS 11M, which has a 19 meter sidecut.  I think I can carry a little more speed and stick a turn a little harder; he likes the fact that his boards have power steering.  Ya pays yer money and ya takes yer pick...

post #9 of 19
 They are only 177ish i think a step down from the 180s. I race USSA in the midwest, those skis can hold you back, they don't have as much power as a true gs ski does. Maybe a first race ski  they would be alright, I have raced since i was a j6. soo i can stand on them. 

Hey the 40lb weigh vest is a legit strength trainer. 
post #10 of 19
Just to possibly clear any confusion, Atomic made both consumer/cheater and FIS compliant versions of the LT11/LT12 as they did with the GS11/GS12 in various lengths and turn radii. To say a particular model is bad as a blanket statement without knowing length and version is kind of silly.
post #11 of 19
Thread Starter 
Hey John: 

When I say the GS11/12 I mean the recreational skier.  I look at the radius to figure out which is the FIS version and which is the rec skier version.  Is there any other way to tell than just the radius.  

Claude
 
post #12 of 19
 Claude -

Speaking for the consumer-level LT11 and LT12, the main differences between the initial runs were graphics and turn radius.  Construction was essentially the same at the initial model transition.  Since then, there's been more refinement of things, and the new D2 construction is different still.

That said, the LT models are primarily aimed at the lighter weight racer, given their initial release as a women's race ski (at least in terms of Atomic's marketing strategy).  However, they should work for any recreational racer.

The only caveat I can think of - and it's a minor one - is that you are tall and carry a decent amount of weight.  At speed, a 175 or 177 might be a bit squirrely or unstable, though on shorter courses with small vertical, you should be fine.

As SkiRacer55 says, you pick your weapons and go from there.  As far as the SL vs. GS thing is concerned, it's possible that a consumer racing SL or cheater SL would suffice in the courses you are racing, though I think that a consumer or cheater GS, 177 to 183 cm with a turn radius less than 21 meters, would be your best bet: decent length, a turn radius that you won't be fighting as you learn the racing thing, and a lot of long-term upside.

You can find good deals on longer length LT11/12 skis (183 cm) on the web and in towns with a lot of racers and racing about.  Same goes for GS11/12.  If you're willing to look beyond Atomic - at Fischer, Nordica, Head, Rossignol, etc. - you'll find a lot more options.  One tip is to look at ski shops that specialize in race equipment sales and tuning to see if they have consignment skis for sale.  One such shop that sells online is Edgewise Elite Ski Service in Stowe, VT.  the bonus of looking at this option is that you'll get skis that will have a top-flight tune from the get-go, and are often really high-level skis at bargain prices.  It's worth a look-see, at the very least.  

Also look as the websites for ski teams and academies, who often run classified ads for used race skis.  Many teams and academies have ski swaps in the fall that are treasure troves of racing equipment at reasonable prices (not helpful for this season, but great for next season).  You'll also find similar options here on EpicSki and on eBay, though it can be a bit more risky.

And IMT00FIERCE: what you are doing in the USSA J-ranks is far different than what Claude is doing in a beer league.  It's a bit of apples vs. oranges, though your assessment of skis is worth hearing, for sure.  
post #13 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigK75 View Post

Hey Songfta: 

Can you tell me what the difference is between the LT11 and LT12.  Are these good skis for a guy in a beer league or should I be looking for GS11 or 12 for my weight (190lbs).  When you say "more burly" what do you mean by that.  I was thinking 175cm.  Is this too short too long?

I'm a beginner racer, but long time skier, would you recommend a GS ski with a short radius like 16m or a longer slalom ski like SL12 in a longer length like 165cm.  

Thanks,
Claude

Claude, not a whole lot of difference between the LT11 and LT12 except graphics!  HOWEVER it is important to note that there are different LT11 and LT12s.  The same nomenclature is used for the recreational ski (shorter radus, powerbridge plate, neox binders) and the FIS (womens) version.  The only real similarity is the graphics and the name.  The FIS version comes in 176 & 183 with the Race Chassis, ~24m r @ 183 (and uses only the Atomic race binding).  IT IS A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SKI FROM THE RECREATIONAL VERSION.   It is a little bit softer and a little bit easier to shape into the turn than the GS12 FIS version but does not give up any of the grip and as a result quite widely used in Masters racing. I raced on them for a season (!70#, 5'8")  and found them to work very well and also helped me better hone my technique and line which had not been happening very well previously.  I actually still have one pair sitting here.   Can they be overpowered?  Yes, if you really work them hard in a full length GS you can.  however on a shorter, tighter course they are  easier to work with than the GS12.  IMHO this makes a better setup than using a 18-19m cheater which tends to drive other issues and compromises as SR55 alluded to.  Just my $0.02 worth but borne out by a number of guys i train and race with that started out on cheaters and found that they really didn't work as well as a >21m ski

IMTOOFIERCE, you indicated that your LT11 was a shorter radius, sounds rather like teh consumer version which might be part of teh issue
post #14 of 19


Quote:
Originally Posted by John V. View Post

Just to possibly clear any confusion, Atomic made both consumer/cheater and FIS compliant versions of the LT11/LT12 as they did with the GS11/GS12 in various lengths and turn radii. To say a particular model is bad as a blanket statement without knowing length and version is kind of silly.
post #15 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by IMT00FIERCE View Post

DO NOT GET  ATOMIC LT 11's. I am a racer with similar conditions as you, I got them for my birthday as my first gs ski. My dad said it would be better for the shorter radius turns, but they suck, I can ski out of them and i am 140 lbs.

disagree... this would be the PERFECT ski for him.
and I highly doubt you can ski out of them, honestly.
post #16 of 19
 Everyone FOR THE RECORD. I don't like the skis. at 145 I can ski through them when i really stand on my down hill skis. I race USSA at Weekends, GOing to the State Ski Meet this weekend.
I think the radius is nice for the midwest but my biggest problem is i can ski through them, which is bad.
post #17 of 19
I run an intramural league on a hill very similar to yours. What I can say from experience is that course set can play a large role in ski selection- especially on a ski bump. While ability level is the overall deciding factor, all things being equal sometimes it's the radius and/or flex of the ski that makes the difference. In rec racing, usually the cleaner the line the faster the time.
 
That said, get the skis that you can arc the cleanest and fastest. If the course set is open and straight, it may be a 21M+ race stock ski. If the course has a bit of offset or not a lot of vertical separation between the gates, sometimes a cheater ski (15M or so) is the faster choice. I use both styles of ski for different courses on different hills. Race stock is not always faster. Horses for courses.
 
The Atomic SX series of skis is popular with a lot of Masters and beer-league racers. Likewise, many of the recreational race carvers like the Fischer World Cup RC or the Atomic Race Ti GS can hold a serious edge at speed yet are more forgiving to developing technique.
post #18 of 19
http://www.epicski.com/forum/thread/90965/fs-fischer-world-cup-rc-rossignol-axial-140-175
These are on the Gear Swap page.  Great skis, not FIS certified but they're still great for beer leagues
post #19 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxKc View Post

http://www.epicski.com/forum/thread/90965/fs-fischer-world-cup-rc-rossignol-axial-140-175
These are on the Gear Swap page.  Great skis, not FIS certified but they're still great for beer leagues

Agree- perfect ski for him at a really good price. If I had any money at all I'd snap them up myself for free skiing.
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