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Sticks and stones wll break my ....

post #1 of 15
Thread Starter 
Hello Folks: 

This past weekend I was at Jay Peak for three days.  I skied glades, moguls with bare patches.  In the process I dinged up my edges pretty good.  Since I am a new tuner I was wondering what I should do.  I have set the edges using a file to 2 degrees so I would rather not take them to a shop.  Do I: 

A.  Take them to shop anyway to get them stone ground. 
B.  Use a grey diamond on the side edge only, followed by black, blue, red, green stones.
C.  Use a grey diamond on both the side and base follow by black, blue, red and green stone.
D. Use a course Gummi followed by a red fine Gummi
E. Other (please explain) 

Your help if much appreciated.  I know I am total NOOB, but with help from you guys I will learn quickly.  

post #2 of 15
If your edges are that bad you would most likely want to file them again.

Coarse diamond to get rid of the burrs
Coarse, medium, fine diamonds

Side edges only.  If the base edges are rough then you could lightly debur them with a coarse stone

No need to stone grind unless your bases or base edges are in really bad shape.
post #3 of 15
Take them to a trusted shop for a base grind only.  If you have a base bevel guide, you can dress the base edge yourself.  If the base edge needs a lot of work, then have the shop do the base edge bevel for you as well.

Tell them to leave the side edges for you to do yourself.  Again, if the side edge also needs a lot of work, then get the shop to do a full tune (and you tell them what angles you want), and then you take over the touch-up maintenance & waxing from there.
post #4 of 15
Generally, regarding base grinding during thin conditions, it might be best to wait until you get better coverage, since you may still need more base repairs in the foreseeable future. The bases may not be pretty, but they still may glide just fine. Sounds like as SMJ suggested, a bit of filing after first knocking down burrs and case hardening (rock struck sections) with a stone or diamond. Then proceed as you listed.

Check out the video in this weblog post on edge tuning for basic steps.
post #5 of 15
Consider that grinding the bases takes off a lot of material. filing takes a fair amount and diamond stones the least.

Are you happy to have edges that have dings? I am, but I'm skiing in CO, not VT. Are you going to get more dings?  If so, just stone to remove burs, stone to return sharpness. The places there are dings are not going to be sharp, but they are going to be jagged and affect speed.
I run skis that have race tunes but keep them on the groomers. I have skis for off-piste that I expect to take a beating. The former only need to be stoned to be pristine because they don't get dinged. The latter only get stoned because I don't need a tip to tail sharp edge, just a bur free one.

Do you need pristine, like new edges? Get a grind and let the shop set the bevels or get a grind, let the shop set the base bevel and use a file to set your side bevel. Then follow up with diamond stones and polishing stones.

Dings ok? Then knock off the burs with a coarse stone, then diamond stone to the sharpness, smoothness that you can live with. A gummi on the bad nicks can soften up the dings so that they aren't slowing the skis, but you can't put metal back so they won't add to grip.

I will take a diamond stone or two to the base edges, using a base bevel guide, if I want to smooth the base edges out. On race skis, I'm particular. On off-piste skis, I just want to get rid of any burs on the base edge.

Always use a side edge bevel guide with files and stones. It is easier and safer (less chance of slipping your hand over the sharp/jagged edge). I always where gloves for extra protection from the edges and if I'm filing, from filings.

Spray slightly soaply water on the edges, bases and tools to lubricate them and prevent heat buildup from friction.

The more pristine you want your edges to be, the more material you have to take off to create/bring back that pristine edge. The more material you take off, the shorter the life span of the ski. It is a trade off between life of ski and performance.
post #6 of 15
Thread Starter 
Thanks guys I did what you suggested.  I am still have gouges in the base edge from were I hit rocks, but I guess I cannot do anything about it.  

post #7 of 15
Non-core shot base damage can be p-texed at home as described below. For core shots, you may want to consult a pro or friend to see if real damage was done. Trying to repair a core shot with the wrong materials may damage the core more (melt foam cores, for instance). If you can see that the exposed core is fiberglass or wood, you might consider the following techniques. Epoxy can be used to fill bad holes and then p-texed over. Apparently there are some products I'm not familiar with that I have seen refereneced in these forums for base repair such as powders. Check out our sponsor, SlideWright.com. He has the goods.

You take a p-tex stick and light it. A p-tex stick is a piece of plastic, of a similar make up as your bases, about the size of a pencil. It will burn and drip hot plastic. Drip the plastic into the gouges, carefully. It sticks to skin and burns badly as you can't pull it off without pulling skin.

P-tex guns are also available. These are not as messy and keep the p-text at a better temp.

Using the drip method, you should fill in deep gouges in stages, letting a thin layer cool before putting on another layer, repeating until you are above the surface of the base.

Remove the excess with a furniture scraper. You can bend it so you are working with a convex cutting edge and just take of the excess, slowly, in small increments. Once the repair is close to the base level, you can use the scraper straight to make a consistent surface. Avoid over scraping. A panser (or body file; the kind with deep arced teeth) can also be used to remove excess. Again, bend it slightly so you are only scraping the repaired area.

Some people finish with course sand paper to simulate the structure that is on a newly ground base. I don't.

The sponsor SlideWright.com has all the tools, supplies and instructions that you need. Others places, do too.
post #8 of 15
Thread Starter 
Hey MasterRacer: 

The bases for the most part are okay.  Its the base edge (the metal) that has gouges in it.  When I run my fingernail down the edge at some point I feel craters.  When I look through a magnifying glass I see chunks of metal out.  I must have ran over a rock.  The funny thing is that base is largely untouched.  

post #9 of 15
Sorry, missed the base edge in your post. Ya, gouges in the base edge, if really aggresive, can be worked out a bit by using a gummi stone just to take off the harsh edges of the gouge. Filling is, of course, not possible.
post #10 of 15
 MastersRacer, excellent advice and very well explained, nice to have you around.
post #11 of 15
Thanks SMJ. I love the forums. Some days I learn much more than I teach. Learing is fun!
Edited by MastersRacer - 2/2/10 at 11:31am
post #12 of 15
Thread Starter 
Thanks guys, I really really appreciate the help. 

post #13 of 15
Originally Posted by MastersRacer View Post

Sorry, missed the base edge in your post. Ya, gouges in the base edge, if really aggresive, can be worked out a bit by using a gummi stone just to take off the harsh edges of the gouge. Filling is, of course, not possible.

What he said.

Sometimes you need to live with the unsightly nicks (innies) because too much material and work would be required each time it happens (for little benefit). Deal with the burrs (outies) and dullness, however.

Regarding a prior statement about core shot repairs. You can weld metal grip and welding material with a soldering iron or RP100 and finish in 15 minutes (which I did yesterday after the weekend dings).
post #14 of 15
Yummy. I only have a pencil tip soldering iron with a tip that unscrews. Do you have the nice flat tip you showed in the video in your shop?
post #15 of 15
The tips come in the kit only and are nice to work with. A chisel point or a paddle like those found on craft irons work well and ought to work on standard soldering irons. You need the tip to be around 500°F.
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