Originally Posted by slider
MR-Transition - flat ski, CoM over skis.
Can you project your CoM into the Transition?
The CoM is moving at all times. At transition it is crossing from one side of the skis to the other side. A good transition will have the CoM in a position where the skier can make a wide range of turn shapes to accomodate terrain, speed, obstacles, etc.. "Transition - flat ski, CoM over skis" was to suggest a neutral starting point for what follows.
Slider, I'm not really sure what you mean by projecting.
Originally Posted by simplyfast
Well it is a hidden move, many do not know that yet except some colleagues in the various national Teams. And because it cannot be seen in an obvious way, it is also hard to detect. But for nowadays racer absolute a must have, but even the recreational skier can benefit from it since it will help to conserve energy with it. It is really how we ski "square" but without the rotation that seems to have taken over instead.
All it really is is that you will shift the lower leg of the outside ski (from the knee down) forward as you apply pressure. In the short turns it is more like a small kick, in the long turns it is more of a slide or carve forward. There is no rule to that, other than the skier must experiment with it until he has the best proportion of that move figured out for himself.
I am glad that MR has also fond the benefits of it, but like he said it will take a while until you can get it to work right for you.
As simplyfast points out it is a slight move to the observer, barely perceptible. To me it feels like a one ski 'jet' finish to the turn helping the outside ski catch up to the inside ski so that at transition the skis are squared up.
My experiments today were done on fresh corduroy at fairly high speeds (25 - 30 mph or more) Terrain was varied from rolling, to a couple good pitches with a fair amount of easy flat sections (Frontier on Peak 7, Breckenridge). I chose the terrain so that I could focus on my adjustments and not worry that if I goofed I'd be sliding off into the trees.
I utilize angulation over inclination in the control part of the turn so my upper body is fairly upright when doing GS size turns. My hips aren't tipped that much and generally match the angle of my shoulders to the snow. In the OPs photos, I tend to look more like Gruber than Maier. As my turn goes from transition to transistion, I initially have my chest pointing to a place inside the turn as my hips remain square to my skis. As the turn progresses my chest ends up pointing outside the turn and my hips point outside a bit as well. When my skis are releasing the turn, my hips square up to the skis again while my chest continues to point outside. During the squaring of the hips is when I use the 'kick the can' to help my ski continue to arc, return my hips to square to my skis and reduce inside ski lead.
I rely on femur rotation more than hip rotation to let my skis follow the path that is outside my CoM. Extension and femur rotation let my skis take the wide path, while my CoM takes a line that stays closer to the fall line.
When I tried to make my hips point outside the turn immediately after transition, I felt uncomfortable as my shoulders wanted to follow my hips and point my chest outside early. I tried to isolate the hips to reduce the variables in the turns. When I forced just my hips to turn out and my chest to continue to point inside, it was just that: forced; not natural. My inside ski would drive forward in either case. I did not have problems managing my skis. The biggest problem with the hips facing out early was that I had to overcome some resistance in my torso at each turn, distinctly forcing my hips to turn to the outside, at a time when I had little pressure on my skis.
The conditions were pretty forgiving so my skis just arced pretty much regardless of my method of attack. I wasn't able to percieve a difference in performance other than how the inside ski would either take a big lead or not.
The last thing I tried and this was when more people were on the hill, so not as consistent in ability to hold turns while experimenting, was to use less angulation. When I was using mostly inclination, the turning of the hips to the outside didn't feel as awkward. I was also trying to let my hips tilt relative to the slope, in the Maier style. It was a fun feeling and something I would be more inclined (no pun intended) to do than to try to have my hips point to the outside of the turn with less inclination.
I'd have to try this repeatedly and then become comfortable with the various approaches to be able to objectively evaluate the performance of each stance. My gut feeling, which I had before this trial, was that how much the hip is rotated to the outside of the turn early on is a matter of preference and perhaps situation. More the former, though, than the latter. At the end of the turn hips turning to the outside is virtually unavoidable. At that part of the turn the chest is pointing relatively far outside the turn and the hips must turn some to fascilitate angulation as well as to prevent twisting from the shoulders to translate to the skis.
I realize just now that I didn't try to actually square my hips ala Gruber in the control part of the turn. Silly me. I was adjusting the top part of the turn via the visual images I had of the two skiers in the OP's photos. Next time I will try squaring my hips in the lower part of the turn and stick with my normal turn initiation. What I do feel is that some outside pointing of the hips in the control phase works well for my style of skiing.
I didn't have any 'aha' moments while playing with hip pointing. I did have an 'ugh' moment when I tried to point my hips outside early. I like the way I ski now and messing around with my hips will be for fun not for performance.